Problems Saving Tags

LeftyMcKay · Post by **LeftyMcKay** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:56 pm

Newbie here so I apologize if I've missed this problem addressed elsewhere.
I'm trying to change the details on some WAV files in the Track Properties but once I close and reopen MM I find that my changes have not been saved. I'm sure there must be a way around this, but what is it?
Thanks in advance!

Post by **Lowlander** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:48 pm

Are you changing tag properties in the Library or in the My Computer node?

I'm not sure what tags are support for WAV files. Peke is your guy for this information.

LeftyMcKay · Post by **LeftyMcKay** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:01 pm

I'm trying to change the tags in the My Computer node.

Post by **Lowlander** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:02 pm

Then you might have run into an issue of tags not being written by MediaMonkey.

Which version of MediaMonkey do you have? What tags are you updating? Are the files read-only?

LeftyMcKay · Post by **LeftyMcKay** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:05 pm

Version 2.5.4.978
The original tags were written from within Adobe Audition. I'm only trying to update info in the Basic tab (Album and Track title) in MM. Again, these are tags for WAV files.

LeftyMcKay · Post by **LeftyMcKay** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:58 pm

Forgot to mention that these are not read only files.
The tags were not originally written by MediaMonkey but can't tags written by other programs (like Audition) be overwritten?

Post by **Lowlander** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:43 pm

Generally MediaMonkey can work with tags written by other applications if they are following the tagging standard of said file type.

In this case I can't help as I don't know what MediaMonkey's capabilities with WAV tags are. One of the developers should be able to give an insight to what MediaMonkey is capable to do.

LeftyMcKay · Post by **LeftyMcKay** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:21 pm

Thanks for your help

How can I get in contact with one of the developers or will they be showing up here?

Post by **Lowlander** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:15 pm

Normally they post on the forum. You could send a PM to Peke, Rusty or Jiri if you need a quicker answer or send an email to MediaMonkey support.

Myrrdin · Post by **Myrrdin** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:20 am

Hi,

i see the same problem here. Write Tags in WAV-file. Change to another file (within AM) and back to the file. No tags in AM.

I played the file on my device (Flat-TV with an Ethernet interface and a build in uPNP Client) and the client (or the uPNP Server) shows me the tags. Magic...?

So i've checked the files before and after writing in a hexeditor. I saw, that AM wrote down all tags (You can find the tags on the end of the file).

So the problem is not, that AM did not write the tags. The problem is, that AM can't read the tags...

Any idea?

Bye
Myrrdin

Post by **Peke** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:14 pm

Myrrdin could you post small Sample File to (<1Mb or as with few MBs as Possible) to MM support. An if I understand you correctly you do it this way:
1. Tag in AM
2. Read Tag in MM
3. Tag Corrected Tags in MM
4. AM do not read any tags even one that is previously written by AM????

Myrrdin · Post by **Myrrdin** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:41 pm

Hi Peke,

thanks for your quick answer. I've done some testing tonight and found out, what the problem is. It's not MM

I ripped my WAV files with Easy CD-DA Extractor. There's a feature called "Enable Metadata". It means, that the WAV files will be tagged after ripping.

And that's the problem. I think CD-DA tag the files in a different way than MM does. If i load such a file in MM, i see no tags (If i load it in Hex Editor, is see that some kind of tags are present).

Because MM (and my uPNP Server) saw no tags, i've used MM to tag it. And this is the point, the problems began... The file now is "double tagged". MM is not aware, that the file contains tags and appends the tags to the file.

If you load such a file in MM, no tags are shown. And, taataaaa, you think. Hmmm no tags, let's tag again

The result: Three sets of tags on the end of the file (and so on, and so on).

Finally i take such a "mulit-tagged" file, convert it from WAV to WAV (but without the "Metadata" feature) and tagged in in MM. Bingooo.

I'm not really happy, 'cause now i have to convert (or rip) 4000 files again.

I assume, the root cause is, that CD-DA did not tag in the right way, so MM comes in trouble...

If you want reproduce the problem:

Download CD-DA from http://www.poikosoft.com/
Rip or convert a file to WAV format (Check "Enable Metadata" on the bottom)
Load it in MM and tag it -> Tags are displayed
Load it again in MM -> No tags are displayed

Thanks for your support and sorry for my bad english...

Bye
Myrrdin

Post by **Peke** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:50 pm

In past lots of apps cosed problems with MM due to improper implementing of Wav RIFF tag format.

Microsoft left it unfinished/abandoned back in 1996 or 1995 when Win95 used Wave Tagging for Sound shemes which even included Album art/Icon (Example is BLIP.WAV which can be found in NetMeeting folder and dated from 1993).

WAVE Files are very delicate for tagging. I remember that SoundForge Report error on already tagged WAV that can't write tag in it. Some Apps implement ID3 frames, Radio Apps implement CART, Hardwares like DigitalCameras writes something as its internal info to know what Audio recording is for which video,... which results that any app can write anything it deside. Shame and it is specified at least 14 years ago.

Sorry, for bothering you with this stuff.

ADD ON: EZ CD-DA like I said writes his own Format to WAV Called ID3Helper on the far end of File, which By The Specs of RIFF Corrupts in that way so Audio Is readable/Playable but No Info could be written prior to forcing any app that tries to read firstly make support for their format then strip in their format and writing correct info to File By Riff specs. OK I'll make Needed Changes In MM to Delete Corrupting Info WAVE so that you do not need to Re compress all of them. Regarding Supporting only reading info from it. We will take to considering, but with out any promise (We need to see how much work will be involved without suffering much urgent stuff and classify it on To-Do).

If Someone Willing to read about Specs regarding RIFF File Format here is DOC http://abcavi.kibi.ru/docs/riff1.doc Where is all explained and dated March 13, 1993

Post by **Peke** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:09 pm

I Moved this topic to Bug forum as it is sort of a bug.

Myrrdin · Post by **Myrrdin** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:19 am

Hi Peke,

this sounds great. I would be a great help for me (and maybe for others with the same problem) if MM would remove wrong or "broken" tags.

In my opinion it's not really needed, that MM can read such "broken" tags. A nice to have but don't spend to much time

I'm aware, that the real problem is, that's there is no clear definition, how to tag such files. I'v read a lot of RIFF staff this night and i realize, that's there a lot of chaos on this theme...

However, i'm really impressed. Such a quick reaction to my posting. And it's really helpfull. Great support, great product (i'll buy the GOLD on the spot).

Bug? Yes, you're right, it's a bug, but not in MM

With greetings from Germany
Myrrdin