Can you auto-sync without ALL files copying every time??

Inspired · Post by **Inspired** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:37 am

Here's a poll to collect some more data on a syncing issue people are experiencing. The issue is as follows:

For some people, over a range of different devices, auto-syncing does not work as expected. The way it should work is that MM determines which files have been added/updated by comparing the sync list (however you have set that up... an auto-playlist for instance) with the files on the device. It will then only modify (copy over, etc.) those files that have been changed/added since the last sync. This could be called INCREMENTAL synchronisation.

For many people MM always states that ALL files on the device do not exist in the auto-sync list. It offers to remove them. Whether the user elects to remove them or not, MM will then process to recopy ALL files on your sync list over to the device again.

The result? It can takes hours to auto-sync every time, even if no files have changed (it will want to auto-sync every time you plug the device in because it will always determine that the sync list is different from what's found on the device).
It means the flash chip in the device (or the Hard drive) will make many more read/writes than actually necessary resulting in faster wear on the device.

So far MM Tech Support appear to have made no response to people raising this issue in the forums.

So far it has been hard to determine if there is any pattern to the configurations where this issue does and doesn't occur.

Please have your say here to help us figure this one out.

Post your device type (and your experience) in this thread.

Regards,

Jonathan

sg60 · Post by **sg60** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:23 am

What is MTP and MSC?

Inspired · Post by **Inspired** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:24 am

sg60 wrote:What is MTP and MSC?

Take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mass_s ... vice_class

Basically it is two different ways a media device can be connected to and accessed by your operating system. MTP is "Media Transfer Protocol" (developed by Microsoft), and MSC relates to Mass Storage Devices.

On a Sansa e200 device, for instance, the user can select which USB mode it uses to connect. If MTP is selected then the MicroSSD reader is not accessible. If MSC is used then both the device and the card are accessible under their own drive allocation (each is assigned a drive letter in Windows). In MTP a drive letter is not assigned at all, simply the device appears as an MTP device connected to your system.

sg60 · Post by **sg60** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:11 pm

If you use a provided plug-in is that MSC mode? I use an iPod and I don't see any option to choose between the two modes. My system does recognize the iPod as a drive (assigns a letter to it). MM recognizes the iPod as both a drive and an iPod. For syncing purposes I always use the iPod device plug-in. I assume that is MSC mode but I'm not really sure.

Inspired · Post by **Inspired** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:06 am

sg60 wrote:If you use a provided plug-in is that MSC mode? I use an iPod and I don't see any option to choose between the two modes. My system does recognize the iPod as a drive (assigns a letter to it). MM recognizes the iPod as both a drive and an iPod. For syncing purposes I always use the iPod device plug-in. I assume that is MSC mode but I'm not really sure.

I don't have an ipod so I am not sure.
Depending on which mode I have set my Sansa to use MM will then access the device according to that mode. It's the connection between the device and the computer that is being determined... specifically which protocol the operating system (Windows XP in my case) utilises to access the device. MM will then also have to use that means to access the device. When I have it set to MTP then MediaMonkey will display the device with it's own node on the tree. In my case this node appears under Podcast Subscriptions node and above My Computer node. It has NO drive letter associated with it because Windows XP has not assigned a drive letter to it -- it also appears with its own "node" or branch in the Folders Tree in Windows Explorer but different from the branch and icon assigned to mass storage devices.

Anyway.... I would say that the mode your ipod uses is either fixed (i.e. you can't change it) or it is something you set on your ipod.

Jonathan

Inspired · Post by **Inspired** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:11 am

So, I have now discovered the following with regards to auto-sync and my Sansa e280.

1) It does not sync correctly when the Sansa is connecting to the PC (Windows XP SP2) using MSC (mass storage device) mode. MM 2.x and now 3.x seems to be unable to recognise that the existing files on the Sansa (put there from a previous auto-sync) correspond to the the ones in the MM database. It will therefore try to overwrite them all every time I re-sync.
I consider this to be a bug in MM.

2) It does appear to sync correctly in MTP mode. I have not tried this previously because for some odd reason Sandisk has not configured the Sansa to allow access to the MicroSSD card when it is connecting in MTP mode. I use my card, so MSC mode was the way to go.

So, based on my experience, MediaMonkey has a long standing bug as described above.

Jonathan

sbooth · Post by **sbooth** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:31 am

iAudio X5L: Initially worked correctly, then started copying the whole lot with every synch... then I found a 'workaround'...

If I disconnect the device, turn it on and navigate around it a bit, turn it off again then reconnect, it seems to synch correctly again. Bit of a hassle - but still quicker than copying the whole lot - and it doesn't make sense to me why it should work!

selimsivad · Post by **selimsivad** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:54 am

My situation is not exactly that all files get copied every time. My situation is that once I make a change to a track on my computer it will get synced to my iPod every time I do a Sync for ever and ever. So, the list of tracks getting copied grows over time.

I posted the following on another thread (http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=):

I've played around with it for a while, and it looks like any time I modify a a track on my computer, it will be copied to my iPod every time I sync - not just the first time after the change.

Here's what I just did as a test - I synced the iPod and nothing was copied. I then editied a track on my computer and changed the composer to 'fred flintstone'. I then synced the iPod and the track was copied. I then synced again and the track was copied again and I kept doing it a few times with it being copied each time. I undocked the ipod and redocked it and synced a few more times and it kept being copied. I then deleted it from the iPod and synced and it was copied (as expected). Then I resynced and nothing was copied (as expected).

This simple experiment was done after dealing with 100s of tracks getting repeatedly re-copied when nothing was changed and I spent a lot of time cleaning that up.

In the end, it just looks like any change I make to a track on my computer will result in that track being repeatedly re-copied to my iPod every time I synch ad infinitum. Blech.

I am using 3.0.1.1127. I am using Windows XP and an 160GB iPod Classic.

Others are reporting the same problem. I don't know if it's related to the discussion on this thread, but I thought it might be useful information.

I hope the problem is fixed quickly as it's very frustrating.

thanks,
ted

metarie · Post by **metarie** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 am

I experience this issue also. I have an iPod classic 80gb, MM3 and WinXP. When I select "auto-sync", the entire library is copied to the iPod even when the same version of a file already exists there. This takes a very long time for about 40gbs of stuff. .... Very difficult to manage, especially since a full auto-sync invariably mucks up the album artwork, which requires a full rebuild of the database which also takes a long time.

So how to I tell which protocol I am using, MTP or MSC?

I'd love to get to the bottom of this as it seems likely that there is a simple solution given then not many people seem to have the problem.

Mark

Post by **jiri** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:41 am

Although I haven't reproduced exactly the same problem, I believe that this will be fixed in the next release. In case you still encounter similar problems, just e-mail me your database together with a description what exactly happens (which tracks are copied needlessly, etc.).

Thanks,
Jiri

Inspired · Post by **Inspired** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:21 pm

Does anyone know whether the Ipod users MSC/MSU or MTP to connect to ones mac/pc?

I've hunted on the net for this info but no luck after 5 mins or so. Perhaps there's an iPod user here who knows? Numerous people have asked in this thread.

Regards,

Jonathan

Powderhound · Post by **Powderhound** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:55 am

I'm having exactly the same problem with my Ipod 80gig.

I did an auto-sync yeserday for 3000 songs which took 2 1/2 hrs !!!!!

Then I tried to add my video clips to the Ipod from ITunes which obviously removed my original MM3 sync

so I re-synced from MM3 (another 2 1/2 hours or so), retweaked ITunes for the video clips and everything worked

Now I have altered some of the Tags and added some nore album art and I am in the middle of a new auto-sync which is copying 1800 songs. (I have not alterred 1800 songs)

Also it is converting the files to Mp3 but all my music files are already Mp3!!!

Heeeelp. Any suggestions gladly welcomed.

metarie · Post by **metarie** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:09 am

Have you had a look at topics "iPod Classic: "Converting to mp3" and "'synch' always just copies - what gives"?

Plenty of suggestions already there!

daelin73 · Post by **daelin73** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:29 pm

Uncheck the option "Update Timestamp when editing tags." It's going to be in my signature soon.

Lauren

daelin73 · Post by **daelin73** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:30 pm

Powderhound wrote:I'm having exactly the same problem with my Ipod 80gig.

Also it is converting the files to Mp3 but all my music files are already Mp3!!!

Heeeelp. Any suggestions gladly welcomed.

Check the Auto-Conversion tab. There was one that forces all the MP3s to be 128kbps. Make sure it's not on and that it's not set to convert something that you don't need it to in that tab.

Can you auto-sync without ALL files copying every time??

When you auto-sync how does it function? ("Incremental" means only changed files are copied over, otherwise ALL files are copied over every time which is not how it should work)

Can you auto-sync without ALL files copying every time??

Syncing in MTP mode appears to work

Intermittent problem for me

MTP / MSC -- How to tell?

MTP/MSC on IPOD