[SOLVED] Problems with Artwork

by **Barry4679** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:45 am

perl wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:53 am
Barry4679 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:03 am

the Sonos controller in your pocket knows what it is currently playing, but not what is coming next, nor was what you heard moments ago - I dont use my phone and I don't have MM installed on my phone !

All you would need on your phone is the Sonos controller app

nb. The MM phone app (andoid) is for another purpose ... it is to help you sync music tracks into your phone, and to play them while you are away from the house, and then to sync re-ratings and play counts back into the MM database at home.

perl wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:53 am
Barry4679 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:03 am

the music stops when I turn the PC off ... the music is interrupted when the PC is rebooted ... or when the network is having a dizzy - Of course - it is a windows program which is closed down

When playing Sonos, using the Sonos s/w, your PC is not required ... The Sonos units access your NAS directly, and they. and what is playing, can be controlled by your phone.

BTW I was not saying that there is anything wrong with the way that you are using MM and Sonos.
I was just trying to explain why is seemed a "patchwork" arrangement to you.

MediaMonkey provide access to your collection via DLNA, which is a major standard for household media sharing

Sonos have chosen to not support that, or any other standard ... they have forged their own ecosystem

But it mostly all (mostly) works, in a patchwork kind of way.

MediaMonkey is very good at lot of things where Sonos have no offering at all. Like:

Collection management, and track tagging and classification

Syncing of music to other devices

custom browsing of your collection

collection statistics

by **perl** » Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:53 am

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:03 am
Why I don't use MM to play on Sonos (nb I am using the S1 version of Sonos controller, you are probably using S2, so things may be different for you): - ( I use S1 too )
each individual Sonos unit is a separate computer ... they are meshed together, with custom s/w to coordinate and to optimise your listening experience

when you play to Sonos, from MediaMonkey, you bypass all that, and use it just as a dumb speaker box - YES

everything is controlled back from the PC which is running MM, rather than by the phone that is in your pocket .. and some functionality from the buttons on the Sonos units has been disabled (no skipping forward or back) - I don't use phone but a HP laptop and have all the functions that MM offers at my fingertips

everything in the household has to be playing the same thing - No that is absolute not correct. I can play Sonos in my kitchen and Mediamonkey on my Sonos in the diningroom at the same time and they don't hear the same music,

no usable ability to move music from one room to another. - Don't need it !

the Sonos controller in your pocket knows what it is currently playing, but not what is coming next, nor was what you heard moments ago - I dont use my phone and I don't have MM installed on my phone !

the music stops when I turn the PC off ... the music is interrupted when the PC is rebooted ... or when the network is having a dizzy - Of course - it is a windows program which is closed down

by **Barry4679** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:03 am

perl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:52 am [SOLVED]

perl wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:52 am Mediamonkey seems to be a patchwork of solutions that make behavior unpredictable. The program needs simplification, and I don't want to help make enough of a loop that can solve the problem that it can't handle VMA files fully.
Yes, it's a lot of work, but I can't bear to mess with a version of mediamonkey that should be able to create a log file, but which doesn't behave like the latest version. I'm not a technician, I'm a user.

I agree with some of your frustration.
MM5 is complex. Over time they have accumulated multiple diverse customer groups, each of whom came on board at different versions of MM's history, and these people are invested in keeping MM familiar to what they grew used to. This is familiar problem with all s/w that is popular, and is in its n'th iteration.

MM5 is also poorly documented. No Quick Start Guides. No in depth How To advice about it major functions. It is a complex system with a dictionary, but with no Users' Manual worthy of that name.

But part of what you see a "patchwork" is actually of your own doing.
You are trying to mesh MM5 with Sonos.

MM5 publishes Media as a DLNA Server
and Sonos is a relatively closed ecosystem, where they make no claim to support DLNA Servers.
so this, by definition, is a patchwork

As you know I use both Sonos and MediaMonkey.

It is possible to use MM to play on my Sonos units. It works, but it is crappy IMO ... is not supported by either company ... so I don't do that.

The Devs at MediaMonkey don't even have any Sonos units that they can test on.
And if you went to Sonos, they would say "Media-Who??"

Why I don't use MM to play on Sonos (nb I am using the S1 version of Sonos controller, you are probably using S2, so things may be different for you):

each individual Sonos unit is a separate computer ... they are meshed together, with custom s/w to coordinate and to optimise your listening experience
when you play to Sonos, from MediaMonkey, you bypass all that, and use it just as a dumb speaker box
everything is controlled back from the PC which is running MM, rather than by the phone that is in your pocket .. and some functionality from the buttons on the Sonos units has been disabled (no skipping forward or back)
everything in the household has to be playing the same thing
no usable ability to move music from one room to another
the Sonos controller in your pocket knows what it is currently playing, but not what is coming next, nor was what you heard moments ago
the music stops when I turn the PC off ... the music is interrupted when the PC is rebooted ... or when the network is having a dizzy

I use MM to:
- manage and tag my media collection
- make playlists[
- browse my collection, and to decide what to play next
- sync media to other devices or locations
I use the Sonos s/w to:
- queue what I want to play ... yes, I often browse my collection using MM, and then re-find, and queue, the album using Sonos ... I know that sounds horrible, but the Sonos search facility makes it simple
- use the Sonos s/w to control what is playing ... where it is (also) playing, how loud, and to re-arrange, prune, or replace the queue

by **perl** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:52 am

[SOLVED]
I decided to convert all music albums with WMA files to MP3 format. Then Mediamonkey can handle my music and Artwork. Strange - just one WMA file is converted to mp3, then mediamonkey uses Artwork from this piece of music on the entire album, and stops unsolicited finding irrelevant album covers for my albums.
Mediamonkey seems to be a patchwork of solutions that make behavior unpredictable. The program needs simplification, and I don't want to help make enough of a loop that can solve the problem that it can't handle VMA files fully.
Yes, it's a lot of work, but I can't bear to mess with a version of mediamonkey that should be able to create a log file, but which doesn't behave like the latest version. I'm not a technician, I'm a user.

No Lowlander - Nas is not seen either under devices in the debug version:

Peke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:15 am Are you sure that you tried MP3s for example to play from local HDD?

Yes I am sure - I can't play music from either local drive or network to Sonos

Thanks to Lowlander, Barry and Peke for suggestions to remedy the problem

by **Lowlander** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:59 am

Does the debug version of MediaMonkey 5.0.4 also not see the media server under Devices & Services in the Media Tree?

If not, please capture the start of MediaMonkey and having it sit for a few minutes before you try to add the media server as a location and check its availability in Devices & Services and hopefully it captures why its not seen.

Only the debug version can capture the initial problem for developer analysis.

by **Peke** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:15 am

Hi,
your problem is that you take Media and Artwork from Media Server and in 99% of cases filenames and paths to files are Virtual (eg. temp created by media server itself) and can be changed each time you access the URI.
EDIT: MM server included as MM uses Track ID to create DLNA URI.

perl wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:01 am Mediamonkey can't play network or local drive to Sonos - but maybee it is a fault !

I would suggest you to open support ticket, where we can go into more details not for public eyes.

Are you sure that you tried MP3s for example to play from local HDD?

by **perl** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:01 am

Peke wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:59 am Hi,
Based on Pictures it looks like WMA is the problem as many devices do not support WMA playback. I remembered my very old Motorola phone removed WMA support as of Android 5.1 due the Microsoft complains and non paid licenses.

I wonder why you scan Media Server and not using NETWORK because you will have full access to files and MM Transcoding would solve WMA issue?

Mediamonkey can't play network or local drive to Sonos - but maybee it is a fault !

But WMA seems to be the problem with missing Artwork

by **Peke** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:59 am

Hi,
Based on Pictures it looks like WMA is the problem as many devices do not support WMA playback. I remembered my very old Motorola phone removed WMA support as of Android 5.1 due the Microsoft complains and non paid licenses.

I wonder why you scan Media Server and not using NETWORK because you will have full access to files and MM Transcoding would solve WMA issue?

by **perl** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:38 am

Lowlander wrote: ↑Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:15 am Can you please capture the scanning of the Album from the DLNA Server or the browsing to the Album in Devices & Services after removing it from MediaMonkey in a debug log (step 4b) and attach the log to a Support Ticket: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86643 Also include information on the NAS and DLNA App you're using.

This will help a developer analyze why this happens on your setup.

Installed the debug program:

Then I selected

And got this:

It didn't give me the option to select the NAS
Then I reinstalled:

Selected:

And this time a could select the NAS:

So I am not able to make any debug log to the support with the debug version

Are you saying you can't play files scanned from the File Server to the Sonos? ie. it only works for files scanned from the DLNA Server on the NAS?

Yes, it only works if I scan my music albums with "Media Server"
If I try to send music to my Sonos :

I get errors like this:

And if I select "Multi-zone":

by **Lowlander** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 11:15 am

Can you please capture the scanning of the Album from the DLNA Server or the browsing to the Album in Devices & Services after removing it from MediaMonkey in a debug log (step 4b) and attach the log to a Support Ticket: https://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86643 Also include information on the NAS and DLNA App you're using.

This will help a developer analyze why this happens on your setup.

Are you saying you can't play files scanned from the File Server to the Sonos? ie. it only works for files scanned from the DLNA Server on the NAS?

by **perl** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:56 am

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:53 pm Is there any good reason why you get MM to read from the MediaServer on your NAS? ie. vs directly pointing to the actual file location on your NAS, where you media files are stored?

Mediamonkey allows me to play music on my laptop or on my Sonos, and I absolutely prefer the sound from a Sonos.
I decided to use Mediamonkey because I get at better view of my albums than Sonos:

I have these 4 options to associate music with Mediamonkey.
"Local Storage" and "Network" do not allow me to play the music on a Sonos speaker.
The only thing that has worked for me when I want to play on Sonos is "Media Server"
I have not tested "Cloud Storage".

It is also hard for MediaMonkey ... they have some kind of hack, that I don't understand, which helps people find and make the initial connection to their NAS. ... Once you have connected to it once, everything seems to fall into place from there onwards.
Their QuickStart documentation is non-existent. (?!

It looks to me that you have scanned, some or all, of your tracks via your Media Server, which is effectively a read-only middle man. You can play from there, but not update

MM handling of art is complex. I think that they cache recently accessed images, to speed things up if you return.
The cache is a temporary repository, which gets cleans up by periodic housekeeping.
The same thing is probably happening inside the Media Server on your name. It probably housekeeps its own cache also.

My guess is that the reason why your art sometimes disappears is because the temporarily cached image that you last saw, or setup, has been house kept.

MM handling of art is also sometimes flaky. Some times my art has temporarily "disappeared" ... probably after a crash, which I can see often while beta testing. I have not noticed it recently ... it clears itself up ok when it has repopulated the cache.

I've noticed that, and it's probably the reason why weird suggestions for album art are popping up, but I'll get back to that.

You could also try using MM5 to maintain your tags, rather than an external tool. It may simplify your workflow.

I don't trust Mediamonkey when it comes to adding tags. Perhaps this is because it is difficult to get an overview of what is happening in the program.
Here you see an example of an image that is inserted despite the fact that I believe I have done EVERYTHING so that Mediamonkey does not affect my tags and Artwork. On each piece of music there is a picture with Andre Rieau. Mediamonkey does not correct anything if the album is entered as local or network as seen here. Only on the album entered as Media Server.:

I can't get rid of the picture of Zacks Nkosi.
I show here my setups before I scanned these albums into the database:

Cleared the database and cleaned the URL cache

Then I made this setup:

Then I ran this import:

Am I doing something wrong?
How do I prevent Mediamonkey from suggesting images?
I was just hoping to be able to get the same Artwork no matter if I use a network or Media server when creating my music library. Sonos has control over the images, why can't Mediamonkey get the same?

by **perl** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:31 am

Lowlander wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:31 pm When you browse through Devices & Services to the same Album on the media server, does MediaMonkey still fail to show Artwork?

Yes, it is the same

I will read Barry's response later today and see if his suggestions work

by **Barry4679** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:53 pm

Is there any good reason why you get MM to read from the MediaServer on your NAS? ie. vs directly pointing to the actual file location on your NAS, where you media files are stored?

From that other thread you mentioned:

Barry4679 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:22 am You need to remove, from MediaMonkey and then rescan, your NAS tracks using either:
//YOUR-NAS_NAME/music

or //192.168.1.45/music

In those two options, the "/music" suffix is is the music Share on your NAS, where I think your media files are stored.
The 1st part are effectively the same thing; ie. and the Name of your NAS, and then the address of your NAS

I know that it is so bloody confusing. See here. This is looking via MM5 Folders node.

That is my NAS ... I have a "music" share ... but actually my media files are in the "flac" share, although that is irrelevant here
that has exactly the same name ... but that is the Media Server running on my NAS ... it also has a directory name "Music" which adds to the confusion

See on the right, you can tell them apart by their different icons ... also one has a "music" share, and the other has a "Music" folder

It is hard to give advice here, because home networks can be configured with more, or with less, security ... and what works here, may not work elsewhere
It is also hard for me, because I know next to nothing about Network plumbing.

It is also hard for MediaMonkey ... they have some kind of hack, that I don't understand, which helps people find and make the initial connection to their NAS. ... Once you have connected to it once, everything seems to fall into place from there onwards.
Their QuickStart documentation is non-existent. (?!

It looks to me that you have scanned, some or all, of your tracks via your Media Server, which is effectively a read-only middle man. You can play from there, but not update

MM handling of art is complex. I think that they cache recently accessed images, to speed things up if you return.
The cache is a temporary repository, which gets cleans up by periodic housekeeping.
The same thing is probably happening inside the Media Server on your name. It probably housekeeps its own cache also.

My guess is that the reason why your art sometimes disappears is because the temporarily cached image that you last saw, or setup, has been house kept.

MM handling of art is also sometimes flaky. Some times my art has temporarily "disappeared" ... probably after a crash, which I can see often while beta testing. I have not noticed it recently ... it clears itself up ok when it has repopulated the cache.

If you want to fix this problem, you should scan from your files directly, if you have no problem with media files that have been imported into MM5 using that route. ... ie. using the NAS name, or address, from the Share where the music is stored.
You don't have to move where your files are .. just re-clear the database, and repopulate it.

You could also try using MM5 to maintain your tags, rather than an external tool. It may simplify your workflow.

by **Lowlander** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 2:31 pm

When you browse through Devices & Services to the same Album on the media server, does MediaMonkey still fail to show Artwork?

by **perl** » Tue Nov 22, 2022 11:45 am

You can play in both MediaMonkey and Sonos from a DLNA Server. That's fine. However you can't edit files over DLNA.
I don't need to edit tags from mediamonkey
I use the program Mp3tag

But why can't Mediamonkey show Artwork in this exampel ?:

They are looking at the same album. The first with network address the next with Media Server address.

[SOLVED] Problems with Artwork

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