Grid View - Sorting [#16976]

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Davo
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Grid View - Sorting [#16976]

Post by Davo »

Sorting in Grid view is very limited. Only seems to be 2 choices Name or Release date. There is no sorting option in the context menu. I would like to be able to sort on any field. Could this be considered please.
Also the naming of the current two options could be improved. ie -
1. Name is vague, is it album name or artist name etc?
2. Release date. This seems to be the only place that you refer to a "Release" date. There is no tag for Release date in the Properties panel which has date & original date.
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by MiPi »

But the other fields are track specific, not album properties, that is why they are not used in grid of albums.
You are right about wording, I'll suggest to improve that.
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by MiPi »

Barry4679
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Barry4679 »

MiPi wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:50 am But the other fields are track specific, not album properties, that is why they are not used in grid of albums.
For an album focused MediaMonkey customer some of those other fields are album properties. I have Genre set at the album level, also Added (aka date added to my collection), and File Type. Also I used some custom columns at the album level for things like album play count and date last played.

You have hard coded your own Use Case into MM5, and have not taken the Use Case of album listeners IMO. It is something that is lost in the migration from MM4.
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Lowlander »

Although you may use it that way, this isn't the way all users user it. For me none of these fields are consistently Album based (some mostly, but not for all Albums in the Library). This would need to work for all use cases, not some. In other words, it would split Albums for other users if you'd sort on the tags. You also run into the problem that the values aren't displayed in this view, so you can't actually how sort is applied (other than in the column sort indicator).
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Barry4679 »

The fact remains that MM4 allowed people who do tag this way to sort (and group) album art grids by Genre and Rating and Composer tags .. this is lost in MM5, along with a couple of other album focused faculties.

These facilities did no harm to Mixed Track Playlist people, and were useful ti Album playing customers.

As you aren't an album listener you would not sort the grid by any of these tags, but where is the harm of having this as a option .. It would be good if MM5 moved forward for Album Playing customers also, ie. Improved upon what was in MM4, by adding sort by date ripped, and custom fields, to what was previously available in MM4
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Lowlander »

You're actually right (I though this wasn't available in MM4 either), but it doesn't actually work as an Album with files from different Genre's or Date's is only displayed under one Genre or Date when sorting on that column.
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Barry4679 »

Lowlander wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:23 am You're actually right
<ignoring the fact that you sound surprised> :)
Lowlander wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:23 am it doesn't actually work as an Album with files from different Genre's or Date's is only displayed under one Genre or Date when sorting on that column.
I hadn't noticed that since all my album track tags are consistent.

I don't see the issue you mentioned yesterday as being a real problem; ie. an album being fragmented if it is sorted by a "track" tag which varies within the album. We are used to to this issue because it happens, in both MM4 & MM5, in the List (by Album) view. ... We know that if we ask a stupid question, we get a stupid answer.

I don't understand why Big Brother has optimised away the sort of album thumbs flexibility, but not in the Tracks(by Album) View, if that was the issue.

My problem issue is that the current generation of MM designers are album-blind, as is evidenced by several losses for album listeners in the MM5 re-write. ... also evidenced by MiPi's answer to the OP's question. ... I presume that they would not have done these UI optimisations I they understood better the requirements from a album-listener's POV.

If they think that the majority of MM customers are going get whip lash or something from retaining, or extending, album-centric facilities, they could condition them by a toggle at the library or collection level ... ie. TrackFocused=Y|N

btw, thanks for participating in this conversation.
Davo
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Davo »

I concur with Barry's arguments.
Lowlander says
You also run into the problem that the values aren't displayed in this view, so you can't actually (see) how sort is applied (other than in the column sort indicator).
At the Collection level you already have this situation, ie there is sort options of Album, Album Artist & Date but you only display the Album name & Album Artist under the album thumbnail.
To overcome this issue you could display the date in a third line. I understand that in the Grid view you want to minimise the amount of text, but there still needs to be sufficient visible info associated with the thumbnail to make it intelligible & useful. Otherwise you just have a set of pretty pictures.

At the very least i would like to see all Grid views sort options & text display standardised to Album name, Album Artist & Date (as i have suggested above).
At least then the essential attributes of Album & Artist would be able to be sorted & displayed.
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Davo
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Davo »

Some more thoughts.
1. There are no sort options at the Node level, eg Composer. It would be helpful to at least have Ascending or Descending order.

2. At the next level down (when you select a Composer) the sort by option is on the far right of the screen. This disassociates it from the subject of the options which are on the far left of the screen. I would prefer that it be included in the 3 dot hamburger options.

I have the same issue with the funnel filter. The 3dot hamburger & the "Remove" bar options are on the far right of the screen
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Lowlander »

2) You need room for the bread-crumb navigation and as they belong to the Filelisting (not Media Tree) they're right above where the Filelisting is.
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Davo
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Davo »

Sorry Lowlander I have no idea what you mean. Where are the "breadcrumbs" you refer to?
[url][https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s1xi6S ... haring/url]
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Barry4679 »

Davo wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:03 pm Sorry Lowlander I have no idea what you mean. Where are the "breadcrumbs" you refer to?
I think Lowlander has misunderstood your point.
The breadcrumbs that he|she refers to explain why the funnel icon on the toolbar is on the far right.
The "breadcrumbs" in your diagram are
  • Home (obscured by the expansion of the File menu options)
  • Composers
  • Genre contains "classical"
They are breadcrumbs in the Hansel & Gretel sense, because they show how you got to where you are, and you can click any "breadcrumb" in the chain to jump backwards up the hierarchy. ... the chain can get long, which explains why the funnel is over to the right.

Back to your point ... I have no problem with the current position of the sort options or the Funnel's Remove option.
I suppose they could be in the hamburger menu, but it is already busy to the point of being overloaded.
And reducing the clutter on the left does serve to improve the readability of the sub-heading on the left; eg Aguado, Dioniso in your illustration
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Re: Grid View - Sorting

Post by Davo »

Thanks Barry - i've just read up on "breadcrumbs" So it's much clearer to me now. I don't have an issue with the placement of the funnel. Just the hamburger options.
I take your point about the clutter on the left side context menu but i would still prefer all the actions to be included in the context menu, after all it would only mean one extra entry in the menu - named "Sort" which opens to a sub menu with the Sort options.

BTW - now that i've mastered breadcrumbs & hamburgers are there any other food groups i need to be aware of?
David
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