Updating Media Monkey

[JamsBand (someone is using my name)]

Thank you for Media Monkey! I really appreciate your efforts in making such a useful program. I use Window XP64 so as you know Itunes does not work on that OS. But that was my blessing because I found such a better program for putting tunes on my ipod and mp3 players with Media Monkey.
My only issue and maybe this was a one time thing but when I update, like today I updated to 4.01.1461 it had to rescan my entire libary of music, which is about 590.9 gigs of music. Will is have to rescan the entire libary every time it updates? I mean i understand when it adds new files to the libary but is there not some sort of file that stores all the libary info so when updating it does not have to rescan like its new?
Thanks again,
Jams

[nohitter151]

Thank you for Media Monkey! I really appreciate your efforts in making such a useful program. I use Window XP64 so as you know Itunes does not work on that OS. But that was my blessing because I found such a better program for putting tunes on my ipod and mp3 players with Media Monkey.
My only issue and maybe this was a one time thing but when I update, like today I updated to 4.01.1461 it had to rescan my entire libary of music, which is about 590.9 gigs of music. Will is have to rescan the entire libary every time it updates? I mean i understand when it adds new files to the libary but is there not some sort of file that stores all the libary info so when updating it does not have to rescan like its new?
Thanks again,
Jams

What do you mean "it had to rescan your entire library"? You don't HAVE to do it. Just hit the cancel button.

[MattTown]

Same thing here. Updated to 1461 IAW MM update check: downloaded and saved the 1461 exe, closed MM1459, double clicked the 1461 exe and answered the prompts for a portable installation (for backup purposes I put MM into a D: drive).

Rescanned (as has happend before) but this time it trashed all of my carefully preserved "date added" and playcount data that had already survived the V3 to V4 1459 upgrade! WTF! Stupid Stupid update process!

And as for simply cancelling the rescan process, as in "you don't HAVE to do it", how many times have we been advised to simply let the program do its thing? There's nothing clever about the upgrade or install process that says "WARNING - you're about to trash your existing database" that might prompt you to think "maybe not this time".

Whatever passes for testing of the update code isn't good enough.

[nohitter151]

And as for simply cancelling the rescan process, as in "you don't HAVE to do it", how many times have we been advised to simply let the program do its thing?

Uh, by who exactly? I have never heard that.

[JamsBand (someone is using my name)]

My only issue and maybe this was a one time thing but when I update, like today I updated to 4.01.1461 it had to rescan my entire libary of music, which is about 590.9 gigs of music. Will is have to rescan the entire libary every time it updates? I mean i understand when it adds new files to the libary but is there not some sort of file that stores all the libary info so when updating it does not have to rescan like its new?
Thanks again,
Jams

What do you mean "it had to rescan your entire library"? You don't HAVE to do it. Just hit the cancel button.

So during the update process as it is almost finished I should hit cancel? That sounds like a temporary makeshift fix for a problem I assume is being worked on. I don't even remember having the opportunity to cancel but one would not logically cancel an update while it is more than most of the way through the process.
Jams

[Lowlander]

You're asked to scan when you install, which you don't have to. If you did allow the scan you can cancel the scan (not the install process) at anytime in the status bar (right click > Terminate).

[lizardo]

OK, and if we didn't know that --
(because the update install did NOT ask me or give me the option to scan or not to scan) --
is there anyway to get back the old database, with all my beloved (and *correct*) "date added" values?

I agree with previous poster(s) -- there should be more warning/explanation during the install process as to what we're going to lose...

[nohitter151]

OK, and if we didn't know that --
(because the update install did NOT ask me or give me the option to scan or not to scan) --
is there anyway to get back the old database, with all my beloved (and *correct*) "date added" values?

I agree with previous poster(s) -- there should be more warning/explanation during the install process as to what we're going to lose...

There is an option to scan. You most likely were just blindly clicking "OK" without actually reading what any of the dialogs said.

If you were to actually read and follow the prompts without clicking through blindly, you wouldn't lose anything during installation.

[lizardo]

Sorry, I disagree. I wasn't blindly doing anything -- e.g., I checked the option for skinning (which was unchecked).
Anyway, I don't have a video of my install process to prove it, so let's let that die.

Now I have a much bigger problem:
MM will start to open, but sits there and grinds, greyed out, and never fully starts up. (I've given it 30 minutes.)
This is after the initial update to v4.x, and after the initial full scan (which I complained about in my previous post).
Any idea what's going on?
Should I uninstall and reinstall?
Should I start a new thread?

UPDATE (45 minutes later): OK, never mind the above -- it seems to be back now. 30 minutes wasn't long enough, apparently. After grinding for 40 minutes, MM came back to life. Weird.

[MattTown]

In my previous post above I had complained that MM v4 upgrade 1461 had trashed my database. Well, not quite.

I hadn't noticed in the "install mediamonkey in folder" dialog that after selecting the folder I particularly wanted ("Mediamonkey V4") the install process had appended the folder "mediamonkey", so the install I was complaining about actually installed to "Mediamonkey V4\mediamonkey", and of course it didn't find my existing MM.DB in that new folder, and so set about constructing a new DB from the music files, the tags of which don't contain "date added" and "played#".

Once I realised this, I was able to go back and find my pre-update DB in the "Mediamonkey V4\portable" folder. (phew!)

After I:
1. copied the DB and ini files to a backup location
2. uninstalled MM
3. deleted the folder \mediamonkey in Mediamonkey V4
4. reinstalled 1461 with a close watch on the install folder dialog and deletion of the added "mediamonkey" subfolder
the install process found my previous 1459 installation, inducted all the existing data and everything is nice again.

If I could make a suggestion, it would be that the upgrade process looks for an existing installation and prompts the user to utilise or ignore or overwrite that previous, and the first option should be the default for incremental upgrades.

[lizardo]

OK, I don't care if Lowlander and nohitter think I'm stupid, I still say there's something not right with this update process.

I just went thru the process again, on a different PC (my laptop), and I took screen shots every step of the way.
I was installing MM 4.0.2.1462 as an upgrade/update; version 3.x (can't remember exactly which one) was already installed.

The problems as I see them:

1) I was NEVER asked nor warned about a new scan -- MM simply started scanning, and all my "date added" values were changed to Today. Yes, I could have stopped it by clicking in the taskbar, but the program never warned me that existing values would be overwritten. I didn't stop it, because I thought it was a normal part of the install process -- and I don't think that is a stupid or out-of-the-ordinary assumption to make.

(Yes, after the first install I did yesterday, and conversations in this thread, I knew that my values would be overwritten -- but I wanted to go ahead with the process just to see if MM would give me any "are you sure?" dialogs; it did not.)

2) At the last step of the install -- like, when it was complete, and MM had started up -- I got a window telling me that an update, v4.0.2, was available for download, and the version I had installed was 4.0.1. But, I had just downloaded and installed v4.0.2.1462. I hit the Download button just for the heck of it, and got a second copy of MM 4.0.2.1462. So, there's some minor bug there.

The screenshots are in my Picasa web album here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1171586781 ... creenshots

Sorry, I can't figure out how to embed them in this post -- guess that's because I really am stupid.

[nohitter151]

1) I was NEVER asked nor warned about a new scan -- MM simply started scanning, and all my "date added" values were changed to Today. Yes, I could have stopped it by clicking in the taskbar, but the program never warned me that existing values would be overwritten. I didn't stop it, because I thought it was a normal part of the install process -- and I don't think that is a stupid or out-of-the-ordinary assumption to make.

There is only 1 way that could happen, which is if you have set MM to run a "startup scan". But that is something that YOU set, it was never initiated by MM on it's own.

You can see which folders are monitored / set for startup scan at File > add/rescan

[lizardo]

OK, I believe you. I checked, and I did have Scan on Startup set to On. However: a) that doesn't answer my concerrn/complaint, b) it raises more questions, c) it doesn't answer my question about the "new version" notification, and d) it doesn't address the larger behavioral issue.

Namely: Even if MM does start a scan (because of the user's settings with the previously installed version), why should that erase some of the info in the database?

What seems logical (to me) is that MM would first check for a MM.db file. If it finds one, it would be smart enough to say, "OK, this user has a db, let's not screw with that"; if it does not find an existing db, then it would say (to itself), "OK, this user has no db, so we can set all 'Added' values to 'Today.'"

In other words, if there's a db on the computer, why in the holy heck would MM overwrite any values in that db? If it finds new tracks, great, add them; but don't mess with the existing info for existing tracks.

At an absolute minimum, if a scan is going to overwrite info in the db, the user should be warned that it's going to happen before it does.

The new question related to this:
If I understand you correctly, if I had not had Scan on Startup set to On, then MM would not have scanned when the install was complete. Fine. But what if I had initiated a new scan 5 minutes later, via the Ins key? Would my existing values (e.g., Date Added) have been overwritten in that case?

If your answer is No, then why is that scan different than the Automatic scan?

If your answer is Yes, then see my previous paragraphs: What's the logic for overwriting *anything*, if a MM.db file already exists?

Finally, you did not address my question as to why I was alerted to an available update, when in fact I'd just installed that version.

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight -- I'm just trying to offer a (frustrated) user's perspective as to how the update process could (imho) be improved.

[Lowlander]

Are you sure it actually is using your MM3 database? Did you see a database upgrade message the first time you ran MM4?

If you used a custom DB location in MM3 it might not have been updated to MM4.

[lizardo]

1) I am not sure, but
2) I did not get any kind of "upgrading db" message, and
3) no, I don't have a custom db location -- I use the default.

Now, what's really weird:
A few days after my update trauma, I've opened MM for the first time, and the Date Added values are all over the map. I did not lose *every* Added date, as I first thought. Some of the original (correct) Added dates are in there. However, some are not: Viz., out of 77K total files, approx. 10K of them show an Added value of the date I did the MM update (December 26). This is not correct, because I have not added any music since December 19, and I did a MM add/rescan on that day. And yet December 19 does not show up in the Added column. For some mysterious reason, the last Added value that shows up prior to December 26 is May 23 -- and, again, that doesn't make any sense, because I add music every couple of weeks throughout the year, and always do a MM add/rescan afterwards.

I know, I know -- this definitely sounds like one of those cases where the problem is between the chair and the keyboard -- but I swear, I'm not making this up...

Btw, I have my music files on two different hard drives, both of which MM scans at the same time. There doesn't appear to be any relationship between file location and the screwy Added dates.