Tag - How to turn off automatic tags updating

[AndréBlanquer]

Good morning everyone !
And... sorry for my limited English.

I've recently began to use MediaMonkey 4.1.2.1706.
I've got some difficulties in the tag management.

Each time I want to modify the tags of a series of tracks,
(track by track or using the EDIT tool)
MM automatically divides the information included in the TITLE track
and scatters it into the ARTIST, ALBUM ARTIST and other tags.

I'd like to totally prohibit MM from modifying automatically the tags.

To do that someone advised me to set the following settings:
- Tools Menu / Options / Library: Infer file properties = off
- Tools Menu / Options / Library: Get Album Tiltle and Track Numbers from = Tags only
- Tools Menu / Options / Library: Update file info from Tags when rescanning files = off
- Tools Menu / Options / Library / Tags & Players: Update tags when editing properties = off
- Tools Menu / Options / Library / button [File monitor] / window Add/Rescan Folders:
..... Select the folders you want to scan for media files = no folder selected
..... Folder monitoring / Scan continuously = off
..... Folder monitoring / Scan at startup = off
..... Folder monitoring / Monitored files = empty
He also advised me not to let the tags ARTIST or ALBUM ARTIST empty.

But all this does not prevent MM to modify the tags ALBUM ARTIST, ARTIST, GENRE (and CONDUCTOR) each time I begin to modify the tag TITLE.

Please, could someone tell me how totally prohibit MM from modifying automatically the tags?

Thanks for having read this and for giving me an efficient answer

André Blanquer

[Lowlander]

First of all you're using an old version.

I don't entirely follow as I haven't seen behavior like this. If you change the Title tag in the Edit > Properties window of a file it should not change any other tag (although what is shown for all tags will be saved to the files themselves).

[AndréBlanquer]

Hello Lowlander

Thank you for your quick answer.

I've downloaded from http://www.mediamonkey.com/download/
and then installed the last version of MM, which is 4.1.5.1719.
This time not with the portable option.

Without changing the original settings I've corrected the tags of some tracks.
I did some without problem (their TITLE form was "Composer • Name of the musical piece")
When selecting the last track of the folder,
the tag TITLE which was "Tielman Susato • Entré du fol"
turned to "15 ÷ Tielman Susato • Entré du fol"
which is the name of the file (15 ÷ Tielman Susato • Entré du fol.flac).

Then, I've modified the settings of MM as descibed in my first post and I've continued to correct erroneous tags...
And I found a new erratic behavior of MM.

All the COMPOSER tags of the tracks of the folder "Llivre vermell de Montserrat"
were "Anonymous, Llivre vermell de Montserrat".
I changed all of them using EDIT TOOL : the new tag were "Anonyme - Llivre vermell de Montserrat"
Then I switched to another folder, and returned to the folder "Llivre vermell de Montserrat":
all the desplayed COMPOSER tags were again "Anonymous, Llivre vermell de Montserrat"!
I selected all the tracks and clicked again on EDIT TOOL.
When the EDIT PROPERTIES FOR MULTIPLE FILES windows opened,
all the displayed COMPOSER tags turned to "Anonyme - Llivre vermell de Montserrat"!
I cancelled the window, I switched to another folder and returned to the folder "Llivre vermell de Montserrat":
all the desplayed COMPOSER tags were again "Anonymous, Llivre vermell de Montserrat"!

If MM is not completely nuts, as I Am!

Thank you for your kind attention
André Blanquer

[Lowlander]

Where do the files come from? Perhaps the source of the files has tagged the files like that. What file type(s) are seeing these issues with?

I've not seen this happen.

[Guest]

Hello Lowlander

Thank you for following this problem.
I hope I have really understood your questions!


I. Where do the files come from?

I'm dematerializing my collection of CD with Exact Audio Copy.


II. Perhaps the source of the files has tagged the files like that

It's not a problem for me to modify the tags while EAD is extracting the next CD
or to tag again the tracks already existing.
The problem appears when MM plays the monkey with my corrected tags!
or... when MM monkeys around with my tags!


III. What file type(s) are seeing these issues with?

Sorry, but my English is too limited... Did you asked me what sort of file is read by MM?
In such case, they are "flc" files.



IV. You didn't asked me about the form of the filename and I think MM is disturbed by that name.

So I am going to explain how I work.

The tracks resulting from EAD action are stored in the hard disk (of course!).
The files and folders hierarchy is like this:
ERA
└ COMPOSER
└ NAME OF THE PIECE
└ Track.flc
(With no connection with the name of the original CD:
this connection is ensured by an Excel file which lists all the CD collection)
If I consider necessary to retain the existing link with the name of the CD, the hierarchy is:
ERA
└ _ NAME OF THE CD
└ Track.flc

The collection of folders and "flc" tracks is named following principles ensuring an easy reading of the key information.

The most complex forms of track name are used in the second case (when the name of the last folder is the name of the CD).
The worst could be:
TRACK ÷ COMPOSER • PIECE-TITLE-1 ~ PIECE-TITLE-2 (detail) • ORCHESTRA ; CONDUCTOR • SOLOIST-1 ; SOLIST-2...
Below is an invented example :
01 ÷ Albert Einstein • E equals MC² ~ Unless I'm mistaken (sonate) • NBC O. ; A. Tiscanono • Astor Pianola ; Bianca Castafiore

I suppose that MM is disturbed by the characters (¿type?) "•", "~" and even ";" and "("!
To replace these characters by a simple "-" will makes the name track harder to read.
See:
01 - Albert Einstein - E equals MC² - Unless I'm mistaken - sonate - NBC O. - A. Tiscanono - Astor Pianola - Bianca Castafiore
And notice that I have now more than six thousand tracks!


V. The possible or less possible solution

I suppose that the solution is to find the settings prohibiting any MM's action on the tags.
Perhaps I could ask the conceptors of MM a new setting: No automatic Modification of the Tags ♦

Joking apart, Lowlander, if you solve this problem, MM will owe my buying its program to you!

Looking forward to reading from you.
André Blanquer

Post scriptum
I hope my "English" is not too odd!

[Lowlander]

I presume you mean FLAC instead of FLC? If so I also use EAC for ripping to FLAC and then import into MediaMonkey for editing and have not seen the behavior you describe. Have you tried with any other program to see what the tags do (maybe the problem is with EAC)?

[Guest]

Hello Lowlander

I. I presume you mean FLAC instead of FLC?

I confirm: "FLAC files.flc"!


II. Maybe the problem is with EAC?

The only moment when EAD works with the tracks is when it extracts and converts them.
And since the begining of this post, I've stopped any action with EAD.

So, with EAD not loaded:
. I can even see MM mofying the tags
(the EDIT PROPERTIES FOR MULTIPLE FILES window is smaller than the MM main window!).
. When I have just modified the tags of a set of tracks,
if I move to another set and come back to the initial set,
I can see that some tags have been modified!

In conclusion: I don't believe in an covert action of EAD.


III. Have you tried with any other program to see what the tags do?

Do you mean
"have you tried any other program to extract and convert the CD tracks, and then controled MM's behavior?
or
"have you tried any other media player using tags and controlled its behavior?

I'll try:
1) extraction and conversion by MM and modification of the tags by MM;
2) extraction andconversion by EAD, modification by METATOGGER, control by MM;
3) extraction and conversion by EAD, control by VLC which is the only other media player I use.
(I also have Windows Media, but it doesn't have any implemented FLAC codec)

By the way, is it possible to post screenshots?



Thank you in advance for your answer.
André Blanquer


Post scriptum.

I had a look at the tag management of VLC...
VLC supplies a very lightweight tag management: only track by track, and with a limited set of tags.
Do you know a portable media player using tags rather like MM?

[Lowlander]

EAC creates the files and the tags within them. It's then up to other programs to read and process the tags written by EAC.

Are you working in the My Computer node in MediaMonkey or a Library node (like Music or Playlists)?

You can post screenshots by using a service like imgur.com.

[Peke]

Maybe sending (or download URL) of sample file via support ticket would help us in understanding what problem is and what exact tags files contain.

[AndréBlanquer]

Hello Lowlander and LikeMM and Kazbak.

This behavior of MM seems to be the same I'm complaining about in my post "Tag - How to turn off automatic tags updating"!

I've just tested this procedure :
- With EAD : I've ripped, converted in FLAC and initialized some tags.
- I've turned off EAD and launched MM.
- With MM : I've modified the tags (using the EDIT TOOL).
- With FREECOMMANDER : I've dispatched these tracks between some specific folders.
- With MM : I've consulted the tags in the new folder... They've been changed.

MM's tag management seems to be a mere failure.

If it's possible to post a PDF document, I can describe my test with screenshots.

Cordialy
André Blanquer

Post scriptum
As I always say: sorry for my limited English.

[AndréBlanquer]

Hello Lowlander and LikeMM and Kazbak.

This behavior of MM seems to be of the same kind I'm complaining about in my post "Tag - How to turn off automatic tags updating"!

I've just tested this procedure :
- With EAD : I've ripped, converted in FLAC and initialized some tags.
- I've turned off EAD and launched MM.
- With MM : I've modified the tags (using the EDIT TOOL).
- With FREECOMMANDER : I've dispatched these tracks between some specific folders.
- With MM : I've consulted the tags in the new folder... They've been changed.

MM's tag management seems to be a mere failure.

If it's possible to post a PDF document, I can describe my test with screenshots.

Cordialy
André Blanquer

Post scriptum
As I always say: sorry for my limited English.

Post post scriptum
Lowlander, I'm sorry for my mistake between the two posts.

[AndréBlanquer]

Hello Peke and Lowlander.

Thank you for your suggestions.
I'll follow them to-morrow... Here, in Paris, it's twenty past midnight.

Cordially
André Blanquer

[AndréBlanquer]

What the Hell is this mixture between two distinct posts !

André Blanquer

[AndréBlanquer]

Hello Lowlander and Peke.

This time, Lowlander, I follow your suggestion and I've uploaded a set of five images through Imgur.
The name of the album is "MM Forum MM-EAD".
The images are named from MM-EAD--01 to MM-EAD--05.

Before I describe my actions, I confirm that I'm working in the My Computer Mode of MM.

So, let's go...

First of all, I have to rip the CD with EAD, using its possibilty to create tags.
I initialize EAD as follows:
...see image MM-EAD--01

Please notice the tags I have created:
- CD TITLE = "Overture to Candide"
- CD ARTIST = "Jena Philarmonic O."
- CD PERFORMER = "CAMELIA SINA (piano)"
- YEAR = "1996"
- GENRE = "XXème"
- CD COMPOSER = "Leonard Bernstein"

EAD rips the CD.
After the rip, I switch off EAD and launch MM.

MM displays the following tags:
...see image MM-EAD--02

Please notice that
EAD's CD PERFORMER is MM's ALBUM ARTIST
and
EAD's CD ARTIST is MM's... well, I don't know.

I see that the following MM's tags are erroneous or empty:
- ALBUM ARTIST
- CONDUCTOR
- ARTIST

I open MM's EDIT TOOL and initialize the tags to be corrected:
...see image MM-EAD--03

After correction, MM displays this nice set of tags:
...see image MM-EAD--04

You've certainly noticed that the folder "_ _ CD" (which is a "rip-folder") contains four distinct works of Bernstein.
I transfer each series of tracks files from the rip-folder to four destination files.

I open the first final folder,
(here: XXème / Berstein, Leonard / Fancy Free, ballet • Jena Philarmonic O. ; D. Montgomery • C. Sima).

What do I see?
...see image MM-EAD--05

ARTIST = "_" and not "Camelia Sima (piano)"
CONDUCTOR = empty when it should be "David Montgomery"
ALBUM ARTIST = " Camelia Sima (piano)" and not "Jena Philarmonic O."

In fact, we've returned to the initial tags, those written by EAD!

We probably need no further test: no one than MM is responsible for this mess!

I hope you'll easily find and open the sets of images.

Cordially
André Blanquer

[AndréBlanquer]

Sorry Lowlander and Peke.

I've forgotten to join the screenshots of the Library options I've made.
I've created a new album named "MM Forum MM-EAD - V2".
It contains eight images which are named from MM-EAD--01 to MM-EAD--08.
The three last images are copies of the MM's options I've choosen.

Cordially
André Blanquer