Loud, Really Loud CD's

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:08 pm

I have about three dozen loud CD's. By loud, I mean incredibly, overwhelmingly loud CD's.

I put the files into a Wave Editor and they easily peg at 0db. This means that there is data lost which were notes and 1's and 0's above 0db which could not be written. I mean the zig zags go all the way up and through 0 db. Its insane.

The new Beatles Anthology on Capital Records is one example. Jimi Hendrix Greatest Hits is another as well as many dance and disco CD's.

Aside from running the darn things through a wave editor and reducing the volume by 30-50%, is there a way to reduce the volume on the disk before it gets ripped at that stupidly high volume?

I'm not sure you guys that deal with mp3's know about pegging and zero db, which the absolute highest volume that a digital file can have, but I thought I'd ask the question anyway.

trixmoto · Post by **trixmoto** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:15 pm

I'm no expert on the matter, but instead of ripping directly from the disc could you not play the music at a sensible volume and record it (using GoldWave for example) or would this reduce the quality?

Post by **Lowlander** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:34 pm

Wouldn't ripping with volume leveling do the trick? The only issue would be fidelity which I haven't noted problems with.

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:15 pm

If the discs/files are mastered so compresed, the highs and lows (AKA Dynamic Range) is already gone and other than maybe some gimpy dsp processing to 'expand' the range, the music/data is gone for good.

As far as general loudness, there is the analyze volume and level track volume features which can reduce the 'loudness' and make the tracks a more consistent level.

a few threads that might be interesting to read

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=49036

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=48836

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... opic=48314

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/ind ... +mastering

just to name a few

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:27 pm

The tracks within the CD do not need leveling. They are quite consistent--just incredibly loud.

Since the files are cda files, e.g, lossless, I'm not sure what compression has to do with anything.

And ripping with leveling would not theoretically reduce the lost data because if the file was stored with clipped stuff, it will still be clipped when leveling, although I may try to verify that.

The Beatles sounds OK in the abstract--it just is too loud, and when I analyzed it in a wave editor, all the values were pegged at 0db. Wow. Most CD's peak at .5, and an occasional and errant cymbal or drum beat might peak at 0db, but that is rare. Its weird because the zig zag values are blunt at zero db, e.g., look like this __ at the top of the scale instead of this ^, which to me means that there is missing stuff above 0db which was cut off.

I may go back and get the analog vinyl and rip that to wave files and compare.

Digital Music can really suck, guys.

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:02 pm

Compressed in this context means, the volume/amplitude of the music between loud and soft is made very close together, then the result is mastered at or near 0db.

Take for example the pink floyd album the wall, this album has a relatively wide range of volume from the barely whispered tracks to the crashing of the wall and other loud passages.

Compressing the dynamic range of the wall would result in the whispers being the same or similiar loudness as the other parts, all while mastered as the extreme end of 0db (0db being the max volume of a digital file).

Really, you should read several of the threads, its a wide ranging problem and a lot of people are aware of and dislike.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:57 pm

Ahhhh

OK, I get it. Compression means to bring soft stuff loud, not reducing the file size. I get it. Man, you ought to see the file on a wave editor. I can't hear evidence of clipping but I see that it must exist.

Does reducing the volume to .5 harm the file? I would think it still compressed, but simply is now a lower volume. Thats the only "fix" for the file, right?

I have a standard volume setting that I like to achieve on any vinyl or ripped CD which is about .5, with as much as the file as I can going into .5, but without any data getting near 0 db. Thats hard to do sometimes.

Thanks again.

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:31 pm

reducing the volume of a compressed dynamic range audio file won't make it sound any better, just closer to the volume of other more normal tracks.

some audioslave and red hot chili peppers albums are often cited as some of the more common examples of extremely compressed/loud/poorly master cds around.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:45 pm

Can ask why someone would take a decent sounding master tape (or file), and then boost everything so it pegs?

I'm not understanding what the intention is or why they do this?

I mean it sounds great on an iPod, but played back on a decent stereo, everything is loud and not clear.

Teknojnky · Post by **Teknojnky** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:35 pm

because record companies think that louder = better

http://www.austin360.com/xl/content/mus ... cover.html

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:45 pm

That link was perfect. Square waves--thats what I'm seeing. Thanks.