Ripping [#17023]

[Barry4679]

1. I see a 20+ second delay when I take option Tools|Rip. During this long delay there no reassuring evidence that something is being prepared, or that something will eventually happen. .... The MM5 animation for the delay associated with File|Reports|Statistics is good, and should be adopted here also.

2. This dialog box needs fixing, as data is obscured, and it looks ugly.

3. The wording on the Rip log makes it appear as if there were "problems" in situations where it was a perfect rip. ... I suggest changing "problem' to "result"

4. I tested the MM5 ripper before supplying MM5 with my MM4 licence credentials ... MM5 wasn't looking up tags from MusicBrainz ... I presume that this a "gold" feature. ... I have no problem with that. I think MM are very generous with the feature set in free version. But you should have something to advertise that more functionality is available. ... I just see something like this, which makes MM look lame and crappy IMO ... It would be better if you show an Info dbox advertising the Gold version, with a "don't display this message again" checkbox. ... I did see a message when I pressed one of the Config buttons, but the message should come earlier IMO.

5. It is bad that there is no specialist Ripping configuration panel; either in its own tab in Tools|Options, or even better from a config button on the Ripper panel ... Ripping is not much different to the facility to Sync from|to a web location, ie it is a relatively comprehensive and complex standalone operation, were things are incoming. The Sync facility has a specialist config dbox, and Ripping needs one IMO ... The ripping options are splattered across multiple panels, like Library|Metadata|Lookup, and Library|Tags&Playslists, and General|Performance ... It is hard to get an overall appreciation of what facilities are offered in the MM ripper, and it is frustrating to have to hunt through Tools|Options to see if they exist, and where they may be.

6. It is unfair to compare the features in MM's "me too" ripper with a specialist tool, so I won't, but there is one thing that could be added at little cost. I would miss the option to store an album's rip log to disk in the folder that I ripped the album to. ... ie. you rip something ... later you play it, and hear a click or whatever ... it good to have a log, so you can see whether the disk should be re-ripped after cleaning.

One other thing to note about that log ... it is more user friendly than most of the MM5 logs ... ie. it has:

• a section which shows my settings

• it has a detail section, which I can skip past

• and most importantly it has a summary section which shows me whether or not there was any problem .. and if there are problems it tells me which tracks are affected

MM5 logs typically just have a lengthy middle section, which I cannot skip past.

[Ludek]

2/3) Good points, gonna to fix them

1/4) I wonder what could took 20 seconds for you, I guess only debug log whould show me more, can you generate one and PM me ?
Also, the metadata lookup from FreeDB and MusicBrainz databases for CDs are free, so that's strange that the CD has failed to look up.
The debug log will show me the reason though.

5) All the important options related to ripping are directly on the ripping dialog -- except for those related generally to CD metadata lookup, performance etc. as you mentioned.

6) MM does not have such a log, but on the end of ripping there is the summary dialog allowing you to re-rip the tracks. I guess there isn't a reason to re-rip the tracks that were successfuly ripped and verified, or am I missing something?

[Barry4679]

1/4) I wonder what could took 20 seconds for you, I guess only debug log whould show me more, can you generate one and PM me ?
Also, the metadata lookup from FreeDB and MusicBrainz databases for CDs are free, so that's strange that the CD has failed to look up.
The debug log will show me the reason though.

I didn't think that the 20 seconds delay was unreasonable. ... wait for the CD to spin up, wait for Windows to recognise it, wait for MM to fingerprint, wait for MusicBrainz, etc

The length of the delay could be dependant upon the condition of the CD, although the 20 seconds that I measured was using a new CD.

The point is that it is a variable long delay that you have no control over, so I spinning a life sign is a good thing isn't it? Otherwise MM5 looks like it didn't get the click, or that there is a problem in the CD reader, or something?

The animation for File|CreateReports|Statistics is attractive. Why wouldn't you use it here too? ... or is the animation part of some third reporting tool that you have used?

I sent you a debug log ... It didn't seem so long this time. I did measure yesterdays log with stop watch. It was 20 seconds.

Also, the metadata lookup from FreeDB and MusicBrainz databases for CDs are free, so that's strange that the CD has failed to look up.

I can't replicate that atm because I have already added my MM4 credentials to MM5.
I will try to remember to revisit this more the next beta version.

5) All the important options related to ripping are directly on the ripping dialog -- except for those related generally to CD metadata lookup, performance etc. as you mentioned.

Exceptions:

• handling of cover art (naming standard, whether to store in tracks, or just once per folder)

• target volume ... clipping detection available? ... album levelling is available?

• metadata lookup service ... MusicBrainz, FreeDB, GD3, Discogs, these sources are all currently available in dbPoweramp, even though Freedb did shut down for a small time this year

My view is that ripping is an occasional but consequential thing ... like library sync.
It would be easier to see what is available, and to see how to drive it, if task config items were together on one easily located config page ... at the moment these three items are each in a different place

6) MM does not have such a log, but on the end of ripping there is the summary dialog allowing you to re-rip the tracks. I guess there isn't a reason to re-rip the tracks that were successfuly ripped and verified, or am I missing something?

MM does have a ripping log, but there is no option to persist it to the relevant albumber folder.

I think that there is a reason to save the log, and that you are missing something. I do sometimes use my logs as follows:

• buy a bunch of 2nd hand disks, or a friend brings a stack

• rip cds ... each take around 3 minutes or so ... so don't here sit here focusing on the task

• I am not familiar with MM ripping ... my ripper allows me to configure how to handle low confidence rips, or disks not found in the Accuraterip db ... not everything may be 100%

• later, play an album ... maybe some annoying clicks, or micro-pauses

• ===> refer to the rip log ... decide whether to try some heavier disk cleaning, and try re-rip, or try ripping using a different CD reader

[Ludek]

1) In the log I see that it took +15 seconds to read the CD-Text from the CD (and the CD text has failed to read anyway / was empty). I'll check what I can do about it, otherwise a kind of progress bar would help (as you indicated).

=> 1/2/3 tracked as https://www.ventismedia.com/mantis/view.php?id=17023

5)

Exceptions:
handling of cover art (naming standard, whether to store in tracks, or just once per folder)
target volume ... clipping detection available? ... album levelling is available?
metadata lookup service ... MusicBrainz, FreeDB, GD3, Discogs

These are mostly one time general configs, i.e. they are mostly applied globally (not only for ripping exclusivelly).
e.g. if one wants to level playback volume per Album then there is a high probability that he wants to level ripped tracks also per Album (and with the same target volume level dB values). i.e. splitting these options to various dialogs would just make it harder to maintain. Similarly for artwork there is the assumption that it should be rather a global config how to save artwork (folder vs tag etc.)

6)

MM does have a ripping log, but there is no option to persist it to the relevant albumber folder.

I think that there is a reason to save the log, and that you are missing something. I do sometimes use my logs as follows:
buy a bunch of 2nd hand disks, or a friend brings a stack
rip cds ... each take around 3 minutes or so ... so don't here sit here focusing on the task
later, play an album ... maybe some annoying clicks, or micro-pauses
===> refer to the rip log ... decide whether to try some heavier disk cleaning, and try re-rip, or try ripping using a different CD reader

I guess that if you hear some annoying clicks or micro pauses then you will want to re-rip the CD despite the rip log?
But probably you are referring those situations when you want the log for checking the confidence number before ripping (and re-rip only when the confidence number is low) ?

I am not familiar with MM ripping ... my ripper allows me to configure how to handle low confidence rips, or disks not found in the Accuraterip db ... not everything may be 100%

Can you elaborate how your ripper handles the rips with low confidence numbers as an inspiration for MM5 (to enter it as a feature request) ?

[Barry4679]

These are mostly one time general configs, i.e. they are mostly applied globally (not only for ripping exclusivelly).

OK, I agree that, but look at it from the POV of someone who just wants to rip something, and is struggling to see what it is that you can do for them ... it is currently a maze.

Perhaps do what you did here ... ie. have named buttons, which just open the relevant Tools|Options panel, ie. separate buttons like:

• Cover Art

• Metadata Sources, etc

But probably you are referring those situations when you want the log for checking the confidence number before ripping (and re-rip only when the confidence number is low) ?

Yes, that kind of thing> i don't refer to them often, but now that I have them, I would not switch to a ripper that didn't have them.
I have quite a lot of old music that has probably been transcribed to CD from old master 78s ... also CD where the source material was audience recordings. .... dodgy recordings, but really good, because that is the only option that exists ... if I don't like what I hear, I can review the disk log to see whether I have made a dodgy rip, or the problem is in the original source that my CD was made from.

Can you elaborate how your ripper handles the rips with low confidence numbers as an inspiration for MM5 (to enter it as a feature request) ?

see here.

I don't find every option useful.

To reduce supervision during ripping I just have it set to do the best that it can. It's automatic behaviour is to slow down if it is having problems, and then try a second comparison pass, at slow speed, for any track with low confidence. ... I have it set to open the tray upon completion, only if all track rips were rated as secure or accurate according to AccurateRip. That way I only have to mange disks with failed rips (tray remains closed), and I can attend to the recorded logs of any others if I don't like what I hear, later.

I wasn't going expand upon my wishlist this late in the beta, but you are asking questions ... The features that I find most useful are:

• visibility; show details of rip progress. MM5 ripping is happening inside a black box with zero visibility. I want the option of monitoring on a track by track basis, so I have the option of skipping any tracks which have a problem, or cancel the whole rip if too many tracks are getting low confidence

• pause between CD identification and ripping, so I can use the following features:

• have the ripper set to get tag metadata from multiple sources, to auto-default to consensus tags, and highlight differences so that I can review and maybe override the default selection for any tag, before ripping

• I can manually correct|supply any tags, or insert any specialist tags that are relevant to me for that track (Conductor, etc) before ripping

• or I can smart capitalise, or make a global changes all tracks on the album (eg. remove "Recorded live at xxxx", etc)

• and can preview cover art, and look up web for alternates before ripping

• a CD player integrated into the ripping panel, so I can listen to a track before ripping, without have to relocate the album & track outside of the ripping panel