Volume Control Level Range Inquiry

[rovingcowboy]

the volume control in mediamonkey is not to be moved by the volume control for the system in the system tray.

i can move both of them seperately. if you are getting monkey's slider to move when you use the slider in the system tray then theres something a miss with your system.

if you go it on multiple computers then it might be some update you miss'ed on all the computers. or one common peice of software on all the systems other then monkey.

is that going on with your computers?

[cmx]

This is still a major inconvenience.

Please, I'd like to NOT get into a argument if it is my system or MM and/or the ways one person or another uses MM.

Can the MM devs design the volume rolloff to be logrithimic to better work with the actual physics of sound pressure as percieved by the human ear? All sound pots work in this manner.

I understand that MM is pretty much designated and acting as a "pre-amp" in the audio chain.

I understand that a linear output level response is more in line with the "line" output function of MM.

This is a new enduser technology, not a traditional audio component system and the uses and daily practical functionality need to be considered. I don't see a reason why the output can't be modified give more selectivity to the end user...and ultimately satisfy the needs of all users.

The MM built in EQ works with all output dll's and amplifies or attenuates the output db level....this leads me to ask why can't a more sophisticated log "volume" pot be developed.

I would like to use the "volume" control on MM as the primary system control in my home. To be practical it needs to be logrithmic as any practical audio pot is. By making it logrithmic I don't believe it would impact an "audiophile" that would be using MM in a pre-amp function....they would simply set a level and leave it. Those of us that want to use the MM "pot" as output volume control could finally have a practical and useful tool.

Thanks for any help and useful discussion on this idea.

[chrisjj]

> Can the MM devs design the volume rolloff to be logrithimic

Seconded! That would save me a lot of reaching for the analogue log pot...

> to better work with the actual physics of sound pressure as percieved by the human ear? All sound pots work in this manner.

Agreed 100%.

> I would like to use the "volume" control on MM as the primary system control in my home.

... though one must take real care if keeping the post-PC gain at "high". As I was reminded recently when I heard a buffer crash on a 1Kw club PA

Often S/N ratio also deters.

[cmx]

Yeah the "range" of other components in a system and best level matches for S/N would be of course need to considered....but if the log curve it is steep at the at the low level end and flat at the high pressure levels everybody would be generally safe....I actually think most people would not even be affected at all or even notice if it was changed to a more sophisticated log pot output.

[chrisjj]

> everybody would be generally safe....

Not IME.

> I actually think most people would not even be affected at all or even notice if it was changed to a more sophisticated log pot output.

They'd crank up their analogue pot to be able to make use of the range of the MM digital pot.

[cmx]

Not sure I completely understand you...I'm not suggesting an overall boost in db level...50% of the pot would still be close to approx 50% of current output level...its just that roughly 0-20% of the current range would have much steeper level range and 20%-50% would flatten dramatically and then pretty much ramp as it does now from there....

Just need some functional "granularity" at the low levels end. Here, to have good upper sound level system volume for my system I have to have my amplifiers cranked way up....so when I have the MM volume at the lowest setting I'm still at a pretty "loud" sound level...no range at all.

By "cranked way up" I actually mean at a good normal maximum S/N level. Currently I have to run my analog amp pot at or below 50% to have any usable range at the low end of the MM volume slider.

[chrisjj]

> Not sure I completely understand you...I'm not suggesting an overall boost in db level...

Nor did I think you were. Such is precluded by the sound hardware.

> 50% of the pot would still be close to approx 50% of current output level...
> its just that roughly 0-20% of the current range would have much steeper
> level range and 20%-50% would flatten dramatically and then pretty much ramp as it does now from there....

Ah. That's not logarithmic, and is way short of the curve of a logarithmic pot.

FTR, the proposal I support is your

>~> Just a "standard" full range volume control is needed

Standard is logarithmic. I.e. Devs like iTunes since 4.5 http://tinyurl.com/qkmkb5

Cmx, meanwhile you could try http://www.herethere.net/~samson/php/vo ... 0&steps=64 .

[cmx]

Yeah I just realized how bad my attempt at describing the actual function is....it sounds opposite(exponential)...lol

But I am sure the devs know what I mean as you do.....more range at the low end of the log curve/volume slider...operating as any potentiometer volume control does.

Thanks for finding the explanation to post.

[cmx]

Have you used the registry tweak you posted?....

Not sure is the same windows controls are used here because I'm using another output dll that is grabbing and sending MM output to a Airport Express.

[chrisjj]

> Have you used the registry tweak you posted?....

No.

[rovingcowboy]

This is still a major inconvenience.

Please, I'd like to NOT get into a argument if it is my system or MM and/or the ways one person or another uses MM.

so you think someone saying that it is working on their system is an argument? you must be a kid.
i was telling you that its working on mine the way it is to work so you could check your system farther and see if you missed a reason some place. but if you can't take the type of help i 'm glad chrisjj was able to help you in your quest to find the reason. next time i'll remember to post any reply to you as an argument so you know what one is.

[chrisjj]

> i was telling you that its working on mine the way it is to work so you could check
> your system farther and see if you missed a reason some place.

RC cmx's description of what he sees matches what I see, and have seen on all other MM installations, and what I would expect. I see nothing to suggest you and he are seeing different behaviour, just hat you have difference expectations. FWIW.

[Eyal]

You can use the old DirectSound Output plugin v2.2.7 (Out_ds.dll) available in MM 2.5 to get configurable logarythmic volume control.

Works fine in MM3:

[cmx]

Thanks eyal, but I need to use a specific output dll from Remote Speakers for sending output to my network via Airport Express....rather than have all the individual output dll's do it I assumed the simplest and most practical solution would be for MM to have a "standard" log "volume slider".

Roving...I wasn't referring to you in the post and I was never really clear on what you were talking about in your posts. The audio components and outputs work fine on all my computers whether XP and Vista. I am asking for MM to devise volume controls; as iTunes uses described in the above post from chris, as the output dll eyal posted using the log configuration, and as pretty much any audio device with a volume control works. Sorry if there was confusion...but that is what I'm trying to avoid. MM's output is linear...there is no confusion about that.

[Eyal]

Thanks eyal, but I need to use a specific output dll from Remote Speakers for sending output to my network via Airport Express....rather than have all the individual output dll's do it I assumed the simplest and most practical solution would be for MM to have a "standard" log "volume slider".

There is no "standard" volume slider in MM. It uses an Output plugin otherwise there will be no sound at all.
You just need to select another output plugin instead of the "default" one (thus Out_MMDS.dll). In the Device tab you specify which device will grab the sound.