Hello Lowlander.

Thank you for your reply and please accept my apologies for such a late reaction. I read you, neglected to reply immediately... and forgot!
Sorry again.

Best regards
André Blanquer

Auto-filling empty tags on scanning does not write them to the files. Any tag changes made in MediaMonkey will then save all tags. You can also disable that with disabling update tags in the Options: https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Editing_Track_Properties/5.0#Tagging_Settings

Hello Lowlander.

I just spent a few days busy at other activities. Please forgive my silence.

I would not want to disturb the MediaMonkey designers if the problem comes from my misunderstanding of the software.

My understanding of our discussions is as follows:
When scanning the "Music" folder, if "Option/ Library/ Update file info from tags when recanning files" is checked,
the tags created in an external App overwrite any tags known in the Library.
I want to update the tags of my audio files by an external App.
MediaMonkey must display them (full or empty) and not change them.
Although it does not modify an existing tag value, it can look to update empty tags.
To prevent this, I have to put a neutral value (like underscore) in the tags that MediaMonkey tried to change.

That’s what I’m going to do. If there’s a problem, I’ll come back to you.

I think we can close this post.
How should I do it ?

Thank you for your help and Barry’s

Andrew

[url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:My_Computer/5.0#Folders]Folders[/url] is not changed by Scanning, you'd need to access the same location from Music > [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Library/5.0#Location]Location[/url].

It may be that the other App is not actually writing tag changes. As mentioned before, you still can offer affected samples to [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/support/]Support[/url].

Hello Lowlander

I made the proposed modification : see "1 - Options" https://ibb.co/LrGxwWF
I rescanned with these settings: see "2 - Rescan options" https://ibb.co/cLM8GGb
Here are the reports of execution of MediaMonkey :
see "3 - Scan results" https://ibb.co/mG8Xc28
see "4 - "Scan log" https://ibb.co/x7XczR4
Now the resultant display... without any evolution : see : "5 - Displayed résul "t https://ibb.co/s9cpvZF

Hopeless result.

Can you think of anything else? Reinstall the monkey and set it up taking into account what has been written in this post?

Andrew

Did you [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Adding_Existing_Files_to_the_Library/5.0#Setup_how_MediaMonkey_Scans_Files]enable the option to update file info[/url]? You may need to disable only for changed timestamp if the other App doesn't change Date Modified on tag changes.

Hello Lowlander.

I hadn't read the MediaMonkey manual closely enough.
Reading pages and pages, dense and especially in English (a language I don't really master) makes me tired.
And I admit that I have a tendency to try to explore a new software right away before reading the manual, if it exists.
I find that this period of trial and error makes the manual more understandable.

Anyway, I read carefully the page of the manual you directed me to and applied it: see https://ibb.co/crskg2x.
Before the scan MediaMonkey displays tags whose value does not match the tags properly updated with Metatogger.
But this is normal at this stage.
At the end of the scan of "D :\M\" (my Library), it is clearly written that no file has been updated, see https://ibb.co/sJwWfPJ.
This is confirmed by the display of the tags in MediaMonkey, see https://ibb.co/sR06TWb

What did I check wrong and forget to correct? I've searched in the options without finding it.

Sincerely
Andrew Blanquer

[quote=AndréBlanquer post_id=507744 time=1679412837 user_id=74862]
Between each test I restarted MediaMonkey and rebuilt the database
[/quote]This does nothing to update files. You'll need to [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Adding_Existing_Files_to_the_Library/5.0#Manually_Scanning_Files_into_the_Library]rescan files[/url] to get any tag changes scanned in (if [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Adding_Existing_Files_to_the_Library/5.0#Setup_how_MediaMonkey_Scans_Files]set to update file info[/url], which you have disabled).

Hello Lowlander and Barry.

Sorry, but in my last post I made two mistakes:
A language mistake: I should have written "one track is resisting" instead of "a track is resisting."
A careless mistake: I should have checked Metatogger before writing this sentence... (¿ "this" or "that" ?);
I would have seen that the odd value was listed there.
I don't think I'm capable of writing such nonsense, and I can't imagine MediaMonley writing it only on one tag.
Let's bury the case.

Before doing a campaign to fill the empty ARTIST
- I set "Options - Library", as in https://ibb.co/37W55XH
- I set "Options - Library . tags and playlists", as in https://ibb.co/pfsH4wr

Still with the album "Dardanus" (using Metatogger) I injected in ARTIST (normally wanted empty) successively
the strings ".", "_", "AZERTYUIOP", and the values of ALBUMARTIST.
Between each test I restarted MediaMonkey and rebuilt the database (see https://ibb.co/fG9YvNZ)
All this without any change in the ARTIST column of MediaMonkey

I had the opportunity to note that Mediamonkey doesn't like ":" either.
I didn't look further.

As additional information, yesterday I reinstalled MediaMonkey... in two versions:
- the "installation" version in French,
- the "portable" version in English.
As expected, they behave the same way.

Read you soon

With kind regards
Andrew Blanquer

Hi Andrew,

My understanding of this issue is based only upon the documentation, ie not based upon experimentation.

It looks like MM5 should try to infer tags if two conditions are met:
[list=1][*] the "infer properties tag" option at tools>Options>Library is checked
[*] AND a tag that MM considers a important is empty[/list]

You say that you unchecked the "Infer Properties" option, but the behaviour persists.
If that is true it something the the Developers should look at.

In the meantime you could try getting your tagging tool to make sure that it is replicating the AlbumArtist tag into the Artist tag. ... ie. not empty, and not the space character that you mentioned.

That may stop MM5 messing with your separator characters in your title tags.

You could also make sure that the Infer Properties "Use" option is set to "Tags the Inferred Properties" setting, not "Inferred Properties then Tags" .. if you hover the mouse cursor over that option, the tooltip explains the intent behind that option

And you should also submit a problem track to MM as suggested by LowLander.

Feel free to give Support a sample problem file for you: https://www.mediamonkey.com/support Do make sure it's before MediaMonkey touched it (so if it changes tags it hasn't done so yet).

Hello Lowlander and Barry

I think we've gone a bit off course.
The seemingly strange behavior of MediaMonkey is obviously related to the content of the TITLE tag.

With the many TITLE tags I've created, MediaMonkey only does this when there are dashes "-", and then only in some cases...
Maybe related to cross effects (I don't know if the expression is in good English, sorry) between single dash and double dash.

I use separators to isolate the elements of the tag string according to the use of the sections created.

For opera albums, I use the double dash string " - - " (with no space between the dashes) to separate the act and its number from the rest.
In the rest, the dot separator " . " will isolate the "Song-Performer" sections.
But to separate two orchestral parts, I use a simple dash: " - "

You can see examples of values for the ALBUMARTIST tag and its transposition into ARTIST
in the Mediamonkey screenshot I attached to my initial post.

And this is where MediaMonkey seems to play the monkey.

Let's take the following TITLE value:
Act III. - Tambourine I - Tambourine II
Its structure is :
String1" - - "String2" - "String3
It is transcribed in ARTIST by
" - " String1" - - "String2
No more "String3"... and its dash is passed to the beginning of the tag, to a space of String1.

Very strange, from my point of view.

I wanted to deepen this research and I've created a test album "Dardanus" where I've replaced the double dash of TITLE by two singles
Not satisfactory for the comprehension of the tag, but I expected the ARTIST column to be empty.

But no: a track is resisting.
Exactly the one I used as an example above.
Curiously, the other tracks of the same structure that caused the defect in the double dash version don't cause it anymore.

See:
https://ibb.co/4Smg9fJ
https://ibb.co/n7hyThB

More and more strange.

Looking forward to reading you
Andrew Blanquer

If you [url=https://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/WebHelp:Adding_Existing_Files_to_the_Library/5.0#Manually_Scanning_Files_into_the_Library]scan[/url] some files into MediaMonkey and view them from Music > Location instead of Folders, do you have the same problem?

Hello Lowlander and Barry.

Lowlander:
I've unchecked "infer properties" in the MediaMonkey options (portable version in English and "installed" version in French).
I'm sorry to say that I still have the same problem.
It is curious that inhibiting the "infer properties" function does not solve the problem. Does it work that well?

Barry:
Thank you for your very clear explanations.
I conclude that the ARTIST tag should not be left blank. I will replace "blank" by the space character.
To avoid that Metatogger adds useless spaces when it recalculates the names and the paths of the audio files,
I would only have to add these spaces after this renaming.

Thanks to both of you.
Andrew Blanquer

Additional to what LowLander said:

By default MM infers tag info where a tag value is not supplied.

MM uses tag values to give you multiple paths by which you can navigate your collection.
As they say “nature abhors a vacuum”, and that includes MM : :D
Some people leave the AlbumArtist tag empty, but I think that a blank Artist tag would be unexpected.

As you can see in your Metatogger screenshot, it has left your Artist tags empty, so MM is trying to deduce one.
You could fix that by asking Metatogger to generate an Artist tag?
In the case where all the album tracks are all by the same artist, this would hold the same value as AlbumArtist.
Otherwise it is the name of the Artist who contributed the track.