Inconsistent properties (Main List <> Playing)

[Timo_Beil]

After Importing an external ripped CD, I played one new track and "find more from the same folder (all)" to have an easy way to "Add/Rescan".
After changing Album and Album Artist of all tracks in this folder, there are different properties for this track in "playing" and the library .



Could it be that the artwork problem already discussed is based on such inconsistencies?

[Lowlander]

You're showing files outside the Library, is this the same for the files added to the Playing (and shown the Properties for)? Which of the 2 in the screenshot is showing the correct information?

Also which Build (Help > About) are you using?

[Timo_Beil]

The files "outside the Library" have just been "Add/rescanned". The properties in the Main List are the corrected.
The right windows is Properties of the track in the Playing list, started in explorer.
1. Copy a folder with new tracks in a monitored directory
2. Play one new track from explorer
3. To make shure that all tracks are in the Library: Find more from the same Folder (All)
4. File: Add/Rescan files to the Library (current folder is tagged)... wait until finished.
(In my configuration, 6 - 8 files from 20 are reported as new)
5. Select all tracks and change the properties. (wait until finished),
Now I can see the different properties in the different lists.
(Build -> Signature)

Replicating this, I have noticed another problem, that could be the reason.
In 5. not all tracks are completely classified correctly. They are in the Library, but not in the Album, shown in this video.
The 7 files added in 4. are not in the album.

EDIT: When I refresh (F5) the Main List between 4. and 5. all tracks are tagged correctly
EDIT_2: MM5 has two different import methods.
It doesn't consider the (wrong) Album Artist during Continously Monitoring import.
But Add/Rescan takes over the Album Artist, so that MM has different Albums.
One with the automatically imported tracks, an one for each track with an individual Album Artist.

I would recommend to use only one import algorithm.

[Lowlander]

Lets go step by step. Are you saying that Folder Monitoring isn't picking up all the files?

[Timo_Beil]

Yes, it isn't (sorry for the late reply).

[Peke]

Hi,
If I see it correctly you are monitoring Shared folder. Unfortunately it is up to originating system to report folder change and things went broken in relations Windows <-> NAS (Linux). We occasionally try to find solution, but until MMS is fully operational we had very little success.

[Timo_Beil]

The missfunction of folder monitoring on a NAS is not the problem I want to describe here, so I switch it of for further tests.
It seems, that a online search and tagging funktion brings this desaster.
1. Copy a new folder with media in your preferred media root.
2. Play the new track from explorer.
3. Find more from the same Album shows tracks in youtube.
4. Find more from the same Folder(all) shows the local tracks.
5. File: Add/Rescan
6. Same behaviour in 3. and. 4., although the album is now in the library.
7. After playing an other track from this album from the same Folder, 3. finally shows local tracks. But the original tags are changed and written to the tags in the files.

How can we disable the unwanted online-lookups, that makes the representation in mm completely confused?
I dont want telling META what title I'm playing.
Who in the entire world does mm even tell what title I'm playing?
All checkboxes in "Background metadata lookup" are unchecked.
Auto-tagging: Sources: All sources can be deselected, but reappear after reopen.
Other mediaplayer have the option en/disable "lookup mediainformation in the internet", were is this checkbox in MM?

[Timo_Beil]

During replicating the problem with two different properties, I tried to block MM5's online-lookup in the Firewall, to exclude errors due to updates in background.

Now I can generate (reproducibly) 3 different properties of the same file.
As described in the linked procedure:
1. Play a track from a folder not yet in the library.
2. Find more from the same Folder (all)
3. File Ad/Rescan
4. Change some properties of this new scanned tracks in Main-List.
5. Drag the track that is currently playing from Main to "Playing" again


Playing shows two different properties of the same file.

6. Move the curser to the Main-List and press F5



Album Artists is cut to "Various" and the Track# is changed to 01. There are 3 different Properties shown.

When I update the tags per context of the upper right version (Aswad, Aswad), MM5 writes "Various Artists" into Album Artists.

A restart of MM5 results in a consistent display at all places (Various Artists), only the track# 0815 stays at 01.

[Lowlander]

You're looking at file tags (Folders) vs. Library values (Playing) most likely. This means that tag changes are either not set to be saved to the files or that MediaMonkey couldn't save them (no write rights on the files).

[Timo_Beil]

The files are not write protected, otherwise the tags would not be ok after restart of MM.
If file tags and Library entries are different... where did the 3rd info come from?
After scanning a folder, MM shows the library entries, not the file tags, when I select the location node.
One problem seems to be a missing refresh in the main list after the scan (Between 3. and 4.).
The track started by the explorer may be excluded from correct tagging, but not the info in the main list.
But if MM5 shall work in the way I have shown, I would be happy if this would be documented in the instructions.

[Lowlander]

Is step 4 done in Music or Folders in MM?

[Andre_H]

This means that tag changes are either not set to be saved to the files or that MediaMonkey couldn't save them (no write rights on the files).

@Timo:

Another idea to check: does the affected tracks contain more than one ID tag version, e.g. ID3v1, ID3v2.3, etc.? If so, are they consistent?

[Timo_Beil]

Thanks for the inquiry,
After selecting

2. Find more from the same Folder (all)

I am in the Folder node. Yes, here lies the problem of MM5.
MM5 first displays the file tags in the list (what else?).
During scanning the folder, these infos are partly modified (Album Artist = Various) and written to the Library, but not shown in the List.
At this stage, changes in the main list are only displayed (in memory), but not written to the library.
A F5 fetches the info from the library. As of now, changes are written to the library (I'm still in the folder node).

A simple refresh after scanning would show the Library entries and nearly all jumble is gone.

These are problems when backend, frontend and memory are not synced.

But I think that should not be the task of the user, but that of the program.

Playing:
The upper right entry (Aswad, Aswad) shows in it's properties Aswad as Album Artist.
But when I "Update Tags" of this entry, MM5 writes the content of memory (Various Artists, generated in 4.) to the tag, not of frontend (Aswad) or backend (Various).

You can see that the programm, not the user is to blame: After restarting MM5, only the information from the library is displayed completely correctly everywhere.

(Thanks Andre, I'll check it)

[Lowlander]

So basically the complaint is that Folders doesn't refresh?

Tag changes done on scanning are not saved to the tags. Only when you edit/save tags in MediaMonkey will these changes be written to the files. This is by design. Files to Edit > DB/Tag Mismatches would identify files with differences between tags and database values.

[Timo_Beil]

So basically the complaint is that Folders doesn't refresh?

I only guess that this is the reason for the 3 different presentations of the same file, because a simple F5 at the right time prevents from different properties shown. Users must know this time and always remember it so as not to make mistakes. That should be a task of the program.

Tag changes done on scanning are not saved to the tags. Only when you edit/save tags in MediaMonkey will these changes be written to the files. This is by design. Files to Edit > DB/Tag Mismatches would identify files with differences between tags and database values.

Yes, I know. After scanning the files, I am not interested in the file tags at all. I only use the information in the database, which is finally shown to me even when I am in the Folder Node.
The "out of sync" situation is clearly documented because the three "different" Tracks are suddenly the same after a restart of MM5.