Dedicated Playlist view for Drag and Drop ability

[Rednroll]

After writing this feature suggestion and reading some of the responses, explaining non conventional ways of doing this task, it just gives me a good laugh to myself.

Don't get me wrong.......I love Media Monkey. I think it's the best program out there in its class and if I didn't like it, I wouldn't even bother posting a feature suggestion. What makes me chuckle, is that before using Media Monkey, I was using Windows Media Player and was very content. I never really needed much from a media player....other than playing media. Then I purchased an iPod, and realized a lot of my MP3 songs needed a lot of ID3 tag information so it was organized on the iPod and since when I originally ripped my CDs to MP3, not all these CDDB databases were around and I just never thought I needed to enter the ID3 tag info. So now I figured it was time to move onto something more advanced to suit my needs. What I described in my original post was a work flow, I had developed when working with Windows Media Player in creating playlists and using Drag and Drop from my library to assemble a playlist within WMP.

So now I'm getting more up to speed on using MM, and I find a lot of powerful and useful functions......but then I try to create playlists like I did in the past in WMP.......I scratch my head??? Hmmmm???? There must be something I'm missing???? How can a powerful Media Player like MM overlook a basic feature from WMP by not having a dedicated Playlist Editor view? No drag and drop from the library to a Playlist view??? Come on now...IT MUST BE SOMETHING I'M DOING WRONG???? I mean some wimpy shareware programs like SharePod and Floola has this basic function.....So an advanced program like MM certainly must have it??? Or Maybe MM has its own way of doing it....which might be better??? So I do some more digging.......Hmmmmm??? Alls I find is the "Send to Playlist Options". This method is actually pretty cool in some instances.....but is it simpler than drag and drop like I was able to do in Windows Media Player???? Not really....having 2 views and being able to drag and drop from one to the other is much more ergonomic and practical for the way I work in creating playlists.

You can go on and explain to me how "using the Now Playing Window will work"......but you're wrong, because I play media in the Playlist to get a feel of how the music transitions from song to song, and then I go to the library view and audition songs after playing the last song I added to the Playlist....So the original problem I originally described still exists, because now it's the "Now Playing" window which will keep changing, because it's the "Now Playing" Window and it is dedicated to what is "Now Playing" and I'm playing media from the playlist along with media from the entire library. Just like there should be a dedicated "Playlist" window.....which is dedicated to....uhhhhhh???? "Playlist" I have selected????

I appreciate all the "work around" advice.....but please take a deep breath for a second and realize the work flow you are describing for what is a "basic" function which is available on 99% of the Media players out there, including Windows Media Player. We really shouldn't be arguing about this feature and how....if I stick out my tongue, and press it against my screen, while reaching my arm around my head and pressing the Cntrl+Shift+Alt+F8, and use my right foot to click the left mouse button.....then I can do the same thing. It should just be there already, since the same function is already in all the other media players and function in a similar manor.

[Lowlander]

It should just be there already, since the same function is already in all the other media players and function in a similar manor.

That's a matter where different users think differently about.

Do you see that tabs might solve this for you (I'm sorry I haven't seen this feature you describe as I haven't use WMP for that). I actually see no issue in the ability to open a playlist in it's own panel, as long as the current same panel approach remains available. I wonder though if tabs would be easy enough as a solution or that a panel is required.

[Rednroll]

It should just be there already, since the same function is already in all the other media players and function in a similar manor.

That's a matter where different users think differently about.

Do you see that tabs might solve this for you (I'm sorry I haven't seen this feature you describe as I haven't use WMP for that). I actually see no issue in the ability to open a playlist in it's own panel, as long as the current same panel approach remains available. I wonder though if tabs would be easy enough as a solution or that a panel is required.

Tabs could definitely be used and maybe more practical, because it would cut down on screen clutter of the current panel and Playlist Panel crowding each other. As long as there was a dedicated "Playlist View Tab" .....The key for the Tabs feature to work for a wider audience is that the Tabs can be undocked , to create a separate floating window. Thus in a lot of instances you want to view the Playlist AND the selected Library items at the same time, so you have 2 separate views and can drag and drop from one window view to the other......otherwise it could be frustrating for some to have to keep switching back and forth between views by having to click on the 2 separate Tabs, and you would also lose Drag and Drop capability with 2 separate Tab views. If you don't have a way to create 2 separate window views, then Drag and Drop can't exist.....and then you're forced into Copy and Paste methods....which would be no fun at all.

[Lowlander]

and you would also lose Drag and Drop capability with 2 separate Tab views.

If tabs are implemented well you would be able to drag some tracks to the tab selector, the tab would open and then allow you to drop in the desired location of the new tab. Tabs would have the advantage of screen estate over adding an additional pane (although this is less of an issue for users with large screens and high resolution).

[Rednroll]

and you would also lose Drag and Drop capability with 2 separate Tab views.

If tabs are implemented well you would be able to drag some tracks to the tab selector, the tab would open and then allow you to drop in the desired location of the new tab. Tabs would have the advantage of screen estate over adding an additional pane (although this is less of an issue for users with large screens and high resolution).

Yep, that's why I feel that Tabs which are dockable and undockable is the best option. In that case you get the best of both worlds options. With undockable Tabs....users with dual monitors and larger monitors can benefit a lot and make use of that screen space.

The method you described doesn't work quite well, with what I originally outlined. You need to keep in mind that you need to have the ability to always have the 2 views, viewable at the same time. The automatic switch method you described gives us something similar to what we have now, in that you're forced into having to constantly switch back and forth between the different views. The only difference is that now the user is forced to click on Tabs to navigate back and forth between the views.....where the current method is that we have to click back and forth between node selections in the Tree view. So I don't really see much of a difference in the Tab method you're outlining.

Aside from the "Tabs", The way I currently envision it is similar to what you would see if you select to show the "Show Track Browser" under the View Menu. Honestly, I have no idea what the Track Browser does, or the use for it. The thing is....I really don't care, and it is out of the way since I don't have it enabled. I'm sure others have a use for it. The only reason I know the Track Browser panel is there, is because under the View menu was the obvious place to look, when I was looking for a "Show Playist View", where I was hoping to find a view option that would show a dedicated Playlist view....it wasn't there so I tried to use the Track Browser view to get what I was looking for, but that just didn't work out. So I don't see why a similar "Show Playlist View" would be such a problem, since if you don't want it....then you don't have to show it....just like I don't want the Track View browser and I don't have that shown.

[Lowlander]

Tabs would be better than current methods as you wouldn't need to scroll up and down the Explorer Tree (or use back/forward). But this is why I asked the question so the developers can take it in account that tabs might be an improvement, but not the solution some users are looking for.

[Rednroll]

One other thing that I haven't even gone into yet, which is a problem with the current method of building playlists and the method you outlined with Tabs.

The entire principle behind having drag and drop capability for the Playlist view is that you can drop a song from the Library into any song location within the Playlist. So let's say I have a playlist of 100 songs already made and let's say I add a new song to my library and I decide....Hey that new song would fit well in this particular playlist....and I want to add it as the 2nd song in this playlist. When you select "Send to Playlist"....the song always goes to the bottom of the playlist. Then I have to go to the Playlist view....grab that song at the bottom of the list....which is where I never wanted it to be in the 1st place, and then scroll for quite a long time, to get it up at the top of the playlist like I originally wanted it. This....what should be a simple drag and drop function....now becomes a tedious and extra time consuming task. So on media players that have a dedicated Playlist view, I just select that track from my library and drop it into the position that I want it to go within that particular playlist.

This has become really a problem for me with some of my Playlists. For example I have some Playlists which are over 1000 songs. I have a Playlist which I call "80s Rock A-Z", where I have all my songs from the 80s in alphabetical order by the Artist Name....so when I'm playing that Playlist on my iPod I can scroll through it on my iPod and know where abouts a particle song is located, since it's all in Alphabetical order within the playlist. So now....at a later time, I encode a CD of another artist...like say AC/DC. It's easy for me to send all the AC/DC songs to that 80s rock playlist......but now, I have to go to the Playlist and select all those songs and scroll threw 1000 other songs, just so I can get those songs at the top of the Playlist where I want them. That has been a major pain in the azz for me, especially when I've used much quicker techniques in Windows Media Player.

[Lowlander]

Tabs should allow you to drag & drop to the exact position like a panel would. Tabs would only, if well implemented, introduce the extra step of switching tabs and lack of visual confirmation of tracks in playlist when you're selecting tracks in the other tab. Otherwise it would/should behave the same as an extra panel. This doesn't mean that an extra panel doesn't make any sense and it has been discussed before (including options to separate playlists from Explorer Tree to handle them in the new panel).

[rovingcowboy]

your talking about adjustments that are made in the library.
monkey will put them in the order you want by the tags.

playlist node in monkey is just to make lists of songs you want to play at anyone time.
like your 80's rock list and a 80's country list. .

but as you said putting the song in certian locations on the playlist does not make sense. unless you only have 8 to 12 songs on that list.
but 1000 songs like you have or 3000 to 12000 like i use. playing the list in order to hear the songs will never get all the songs heard. the use of random or shuffle mode will give the best chance of hearing them.

finding the songs with search in monkey is super fast now. i don't even bother with the certain place in the list for hearing the songs. i do make the list sort to what i want and save it by right clicking on the playlist's name and clicking the update play order.

i do keep my lists in sort of the titles. so any songs i add in to it do go to the bottom of the list.
so super simple to just open the list and click on the header for title to sort them that way and clicking on the update play order again to keep them there.

[nynaevelan]

RC:

No disrespect but unless you build playlists on a regular basis and these playlists need to be built in a particular order, you cannot understand the need for a playlist dedicated method within MM that will make it easier to build them. I have playlists ranging in size from 8 tracks to almost 1500, and they are all built with a particular play order in mind. Yes there are times and situations when either shuffle or random is wanted, but I am one user who only wants to use those options at select times. As it is now I have to have several autoplaylists just to build some in the specified order that I wish. Rednroll is correct in stating this is a feature that should be available and he/she (sorry) is also correct that offering workarounds should be a temporary solution not the answer to the problem. Also, for a user who wants and needs to build playlists, shuffle and/or random is not an acceptable solution. We all have various reasons and methods for how we listen, organize and build our music collections. Playlist building is a part of that process for some of us, and it would be very nice to have this feature either natively in MM or via a script to do this more efficiently and smoothly. For those who are very exactly (myself in particular), building playlists is not as simple as tags, or genres or artists, my playlists are built with various criteria which can include genre's, moods, occasions, artists, type etc.... there is NO simple way for me to build them except individually and as I want them built.

That being said, I do not have a preference for tabs or a separate panel, but I would like to have SOMETHING so that I can build my playlists by putting the tracks in the positions I want them in while at the same time not losing my position within the library or losing the use of my now playing list. The track browswer offers possibilities but since it does not have all the columns which I prefer available it is not a viable choice. The now playing list is also not a viable solution because I use that for playing my playlists and the suggestion to open a second instance is preposterous. Why should I have to open a second instance or another program just to build my playlists??

Nyn

[rovingcowboy]

No disrespect but unless you build playlists on a regular basis and these playlists need to be built in a particular order

i take it you are more picky when it comes to playing music then me. you must not have seen my posts before
where i said my playlists count but, since i have over 400 playlists just for tasks jobs in the windows scheduler.
and a playlist for each artist i use on my artist of the day lists which changes every day, plus ones for holidays, ones for every genera i have which is a lot most of the normal main generas.
plus a playlist for the weekly top of the charts which is an auto list. and lists for concerts which play every month. plus the jingle lists i made and the lists for tiggering the announcer program i have for a dj, to stop or not say things. or even to make it close when it sees a certain song file start to play.

i put that some were around 800 playlists being used weekly on my win98 jukebox. by monkey, i think i know what needs to be done to make a playlist work, even for different moods
and that is only on the win98 i have these 3 other xp pros here with playlists on also.
so i was just trying to suggest things that i know have worked in the different versions of mm. i even sat here and did that one i typed out with the track brower as i was typing it out so to make sure it worked.
i don't take any disrespect from your message and i am not spouting what i do or have, just to put up a so called badge. i just was showing why i thought the way i do and that i was not trying to say it had to be done that way.
they said is there any way so my way was any, and fit the request.

[Rednroll]

your talking about adjustments that are made in the library.
monkey will put them in the order you want by the tags.

playlist node in monkey is just to make lists of songs you want to play at anyone time.
like your 80's rock list and a 80's country list. .

but as you said putting the song in certian locations on the playlist does not make sense. unless you only have 8 to 12 songs on that list.
but 1000 songs like you have or 3000 to 12000 like i use. playing the list in order to hear the songs will never get all the songs heard. the use of random or shuffle mode will give the best chance of hearing them.

finding the songs with search in monkey is super fast now. i don't even bother with the certain place in the list for hearing the songs. i do make the list sort to what i want and save it by right clicking on the playlist's name and clicking the update play order.

i do keep my lists in sort of the titles. so any songs i add in to it do go to the bottom of the list.
so super simple to just open the list and click on the header for title to sort them that way and clicking on the update play order again to keep them there.

You're way off base....I mention one scenario, and your solution only fits that one scenario.....the scenario I gave was just an example. There are 100 other scenarios that I use that your solution does not fit. You even mention using your Playlist when playing from MM. That fits YOUR scenario. My Playlists are created in MM and synced to my iPod.

You obviously have different needs and are having troubles understanding ours. I'm not sure why you feel the need to keep dismissing the need for a dedicated Playlist view. If you don't need it....then fine.....Don't use it. No harm, No foul. TAGS and Library Categorizing are not a solution for everything. There's not enough tags available for MM to be able to figure out what I want to fit every mood I'm trying to create, and place it in a song order so that it "feels" right going from one song to the other.

You keep explaining things and assuming alot about how some of us are using our playlists....and you are completely wrong with a lot of your assumptions. With my 80s Rock playlist, I have them in order so I can find them in the playlist quickly....it's not for a play order scenario...IN THAT CASE OF THAT PARTICULAR PLAYLIST. So here's the actual scenario......JUST FOR THAT PLAYLIST. I'm playing the playlist with Shuffle set to on...ON MY IPOD.....I'm playing the songs with a group of friends who like 80s Rock......a friend says, "Hey Red......can you play this song by such and such for me???".....which is usually a request for an 80s Rock song they haven't heard in awhile, and they know that's the style of music we're currently listening to. I say..."Sure".....I scroll through that 1000 song playlist, where I know which way to scroll since they're in alphabetical order by artist and find that song easily and cue it up to play next. Then after that song completes, it goes back to the random shuffle mode of the playlist after that requested song has finished. I never have to leave the playlist and I don't have to sit there with an iPod in hand the entire time, to go back and recue the playlist. So I'm always in that playlist, but can play requested songs. This is all done on my iPod.....I'm not touting around a PC with Win98 on it with software installed on it. I'm touting around my 120GB iPod and plugging it into the nearest Stereo receiver to entertain a group of friends.

Everything is done on my iPod, since it's portable and I can play it wherever I go. Plug it into my car stereo, take it to a friends party, take it outside for a party at my house, take it with me camping, take it on a boat. Do all that with your Win98 and WinXP media box solutions.

I don't need to create 8000 playlists like you do either with the iPod. The iPod has it's own auto organization, so I don't need to create playlists for each specific ALBUM and/or ARTIST. The iPod does that type of playlist sort automatically with the tag information.

I have other playlists created for camping trips, which are smaller than 1000 songs but closer to 100-200 songs in size....Yes, even those when MM adds it to the bottom, is a pain in the azz to drag to a specific position.....and YES, I will listen to those 100-200 songs in order in its entirety, because we're sitting around a camp fire all day while the playlist is playing and the playlist is made to create a specific moods, with peaks and valleys and to transition well from song to song. Everyone's tired from a long day of canooing and we want something laid back, to sit and relax around the camp fire?? Yes...I got a 100 song Playlist to fit that mood. We want to get the party started and draw all the chicks over from the other campsites with a little Hip/Hop Dance mix???? Yeah, I have just the playlist for that, and I have to create a mood for that playlist, so there is a mix of current "Hot" songs...to keep the party moving and a majority of people interested in joining the party. I was on a House boat trip with 8 friends in Kentucky. I played one of my playlists, and within a 1/2 hour there where 5 other house boats tied up to ours with people hoping on board....because the Playlist set a "mood" and others where attracted to it. The point is....you can't Set a "Mood" with Auto Playlists you're creating, no matter how you organize your Tags and Library. If that was the case, there would be no need for DJs at clubs. I'm the designated DJ in my group of friends....but I don't want to be tied to my iPod all night....I want to be socializing with my friends and joining the party. That is successfully done by creating MOOD specific playlists and updating them on a regular basis, because some times what was "hot" 3 years ago....is "Not" any longer....so do I go back and reorganize my Library and Tags, to remove that particular song from a playlist?? You obviously have no need for this type of thing, and are having troubles understanding the concept....the point is...I do and so do others.

[Rednroll]

RC:

No disrespect but unless you build playlists on a regular basis and these playlists need to be built in a particular order, you cannot understand the need for a playlist dedicated method within MM that will make it easier to build them. <snip>...

Nyn

Co-Sign!!!

[rovingcowboy]

@RednRoll

no where in your first post did you say ipod.

and you did not even say how you were using the playlists created until your last post.
where you said you use them on your ipod which has auto features.

so don't get snotty with me every post of mine has in my post signiture the commet to tell us
everything about your error. you were not doing that.
had you even mentioned ipod in the first
post. i would have not even tried to help you.

ipods are not in this house. so i refer every post dealing with ipods to nohitter151 since he has done
articles on how to use them with mediamonkey.

so after the fact.

CHECK WITH NOHITTER151

[dps]

This was one of the first post's I read after doing a search for how to make a playlist; sorry if it's not a proper fit with this thread.

As a (probably) advanced beginning user, I would like an easier way to create playlists. My dream set-up would be something like:

Clicking something for a "new playlist", and up would pop a box that sat on top of everything that is resizeable and can be dragged to any part of the screen. Now I can drag and drop in any view of MM. I like to have a list that I can visually browse and listen to and/or preview to decide what sounds good with what I've already selected, without always losing the playlist or having to constantly "X" out what I just decided against on the "Now Playing" window.

Like many CD burning windows, this "New Playlist" pop up box would give a running total of play time and megabytes/gigabytes so I could easily assemble a CD's worth (or DVD's worth) or make a list that I know will fit on my remaining room on a portable device.

Within the window I could drag and drop the play order, or cut and paste the order. By the way, I could also minimize the window to the task bar to get it out of the way temporarily. Also, I could open up another existing playlist and reposition it anywhere like "Explorer" windows and drag and drop between them with a "move here" or "copy here" option by right clicking.

Thanks to you guys who devote so much time and energy to MM!